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Howa Project

04 May 2017
@ 09:02 pm (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Well Gents,

It's arrived. I plan on making this thread a journey from taking an out of the box Howa and turning it into a tack driver using the methods Nathan's book series.

To start with I have taken a photo of the rifle. It's a Howa 1500 in .308 with a 24" heavy barrel. It is a pillar bedded Hogue stock. It also came with a picatinny rail as part of the deal. I purchased the rifle for $569 (Aus dollars, please not all prices quoted are AUD). Add delivery it went to $618.

Due to Aus firearm law, the interstate purchase had to be facilitated by a dealer in my home state @ $45.

More to come.

Replies

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04 May 2017 @ 10:37 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Sorry for the giant image. I realise that how these images display via my phone and PC are different. Via my phone the images are scaled to look appropriate whereas on PC they are the full size. Here is the rifle in normal view... I posted regarding the optics here so I won't bother repeating it now. http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Resources/Discussion+Forums/x_forum/21/thread/14088.html After a quick play I decided to check the lugs and the bore. Bore: You will notice a slight burr at the 10 O'clock position near the cotton bud. Just right of the shadow. It appears as a tiny horizontal line. It was the only one I could see after a thorough examination. Lugs: The lugs were not even, not surprisingly given the discussion about Howa lugs. Fortunately the one with the wear was the left hand side. The right hand side lug has a small hole that goes to the inside of the bolt. I was fearful that grinding compound may travel into the bolt but the left side is solid. You can see in the picture (barely) that the texta has been removed from about 40% of the face. I used a red sharpie which shows up slightly (very dark maroon with a high gloss) in the picture. The wear has a dull finish to it. I plan on taking the rifle out and shooting it like a before/after type process. Once the bore is broken in I will post results then proceed with accurising then post results again. Thanks to everyone who has helped and encouraged me along the way to get to this point. Now the real learning can begin :)
05 May 2017 @ 11:56 am (GMT)	Quote this Martin Taylor Re: Howa Project Good stuff Andrew, we've had some excellent results with these 30 cal Howas! If you have a look at my old post about Howa bedding, that rifle is now my sons and it's .5 moa with F/L sizing and very simple little load development. It's tuned by following the steps listed in Nathans books along with every other rig l have set up with great results bar one damn, pig headed shit of a 223! hahahaa
05 May 2017 @ 07:54 pm (GMT)	Quote this Jon Short Re: Howa Project Hi Andrew, Have you lapped the bolt yet? The 4 Howas I've worked on all had the left hand lug contacting but not the the right. So you lap the left lug to bring it down & get the right lug contacting. It's a piece of cake to do & quite quick. Nathan may guide you or his books. Re the trigger. If it's the current HACCT trigger that's fast to modify too & there is a picture of the mod I did in one of Nathan's books you could use as a guide. Will be a fun project. Personally I'm a fan of the Howa action. Cheers, Jon
05 May 2017 @ 07:57 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Cheers Martin. I had a look there and that's good advice. I'm glad to hear they shoot well after the effort has been made. I am fortunate enough to have a colleague who is an avid shooter so he has lent me his FAT wrench by Wheeler while I do the work. I think I may have swung him towards a Sightron scope as well. He is currently looking for an LR scope.
05 May 2017 @ 08:28 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Cheers Jon. I have not yet but have some grinding compunds ready to go. I am really looking forward to it. It is the HACT trigger. Very slightly creepy. I really want it crisp and light. Is the accurising book? That had a fair bit about the triggers in it.
06 May 2017 @ 11:15 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Quote: Re the trigger. If it's the current HACCT trigger that's fast to modify too & there is a picture of the mod I did in one of Nathan's books you could use as a guide. Will be a fun project. Personally I'm a fan of the Howa action. Cheers, Jon Did you have an issue with creep on yours before modifying? I can feel it on my trigger. It is just the slightest amount before the thing fires but it's already too much and I don't like it. I want it tight. I have read a lot that these triggers have no creep but mine certainly does. if I had to guess it may be around .2mm it's not much but the trigger moves before it engages. Not the first stage take up but the second stage just to clarify.
08 May 2017 @ 09:19 am (GMT)	Quote this Martin Taylor Re: Howa Project All the Howas that l have tuned had noticeable creep to some degree & as Jon has said very easy to tune. Once sorted they're a great trigger that will serve you well. It will be interesting if you do a "before and after" or during the accurising stages but as l said follow the steps and it should be a very rewarding trip! If you want a slightly cheaper option for your optics have a look at the S-Tac 4-20X50mm for $650-700. This is the way lm going for the next build.
08 May 2017 @ 07:13 pm (GMT)	Quote this Jon Short Re: Howa Project Hey Andrew, Re the trigger mod it's on page 29 in my copy of the Bolt Action Rifle Accurising & Maintenance book. Work up bit by bit to the measurement I gave in terms of what to grind off the actuator. Use a dreamel. Keep reassembling the trigger & testing it until you get it down to 1.5-2lb. You may or may not quite get down to 1.5lb but certainly 1.75lb. Prob a good idea to first check if there is an aftermarket spring around now. Could make things easier for you. When I did that mod the trigger was new on the market so no aftermarket springs were available. Effectively the mod takes the pressure off the spring located under the adjustment screw, thereby allowing you to adjust to a lower trigger pull weight. Make sure you check the trigger is safe & can't release if the rifle is cocked by giving the butt of the rifle a good bump on the floor to simulate say falling over with it in a hunting situation. Re creep. I never really noticed that. See how you go getting the pull weight down, shoot it & then make your mind up if you'd like to replace it with a Timney or other trigger. If it works it cost you nothing but a little time. My trigger mod may take you an hour or so, so it's no big deal. Cheers, Jon
08 May 2017 @ 07:13 pm (GMT)	Quote this Jon Short Re: Howa Project Hey Andrew, Re the trigger mod it's on page 29 in my copy of the Bolt Action Rifle Accurising & Maintenance book. Work up bit by bit to the measurement I gave in terms of what to grind off the actuator. Use a dreamel. Keep reassembling the trigger & testing it until you get it down to 1.5-2lb. You may or may not quite get down to 1.5lb but certainly 1.75lb. Prob a good idea to first check if there is an aftermarket spring around now. Could make things easier for you. When I did that mod the trigger was new on the market so no aftermarket springs were available. Effectively the mod takes the pressure off the spring located under the adjustment screw, thereby allowing you to adjust to a lower trigger pull weight. Make sure you check the trigger is safe & can't release if the rifle is cocked by giving the butt of the rifle a good bump on the floor to simulate say falling over with it in a hunting situation. Re creep. I never really noticed that. See how you go getting the pull weight down, shoot it & then make your mind up if you'd like to replace it with a Timney or other trigger. If it works it cost you nothing but a little time. My trigger mod may take you an hour or so, so it's no big deal. Cheers, Jon
08 May 2017 @ 07:33 pm (GMT)	Quote this Jon Short Re: Howa Project I may have a photo handy of the trigger in bits if that helps you work on it. Just e mail me & Ill e mailed it back to you. E mail: [email protected]
08 May 2017 @ 11:47 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Cheers Jon. That's the one I was thinking of too. Glad to know there is a way around it. I may end up polishing the sear and the actuator to see if the creep will come out. I'll try to lighten it first before doing so... the decreased weight may actually negate the creep. I have read that there was a guy here in Oz that used to do trigger jobs. He was known as the ebay trigger guy. His name is Glen Coughlan. There is an ad you can find but it looks very old. He doesn't mention how he did his work but that he could safely remove all creep and get pull weight down to half a pound if requested with the safety still fully functional. I'll send you an email too. Cheers for your help. The next lot of photos will he up soon too. Going to break the barrel in on Wednesday. I will be using factory loads. Federal PowerShok 150gr.
09 May 2017 @ 02:47 am (GMT)	Quote this Warwick Marflitt Re: Howa Project I'd wash out the trigger and Oil the internal trigger with some synthetic engine oil and try it before doing any modifications. My Sako 75 lost a pound of pull after Nathan did mine when I visited a few years ago. That was all he did was pop a few drops in through the holes and wow it made it so much better. My BSA CF2 35 Whelens trigger I washed out with engine degreaser and then oiled it and it is a different trigger now. Such a simple thing to do and obviously overlooked by many. Start with the easiest things working through to the hardest things last.!!!!
09 May 2017 @ 09:39 am (GMT)	Quote this Nathan Foster Re: Howa Project Quite true Warwick. A decrease in trigger weight plus oil can remove low level creep. A decrease in weight, plus polishing, plus oil will of course remove all creep. But take note that polishing can easily be overdone. So do take it slowly and carefully. Little things can make a big difference. On the Ruger M77 for example, a very light touch with a soft mop on the sear, can reduce both the pull weight and creep- thats without going below 2000 grit and approximately 2-3 seconds exposure to the cloth buff. One can easily take this too far. Fortunately you can increase your trigger weight if need be. The Ruger tends to be a one way trip after spring alterations and sear work. I believe the man you speak of worked on the old trigger. Shooters would often adjust light, but this prevented the safety from camming into place. Folk were too scared to hone the front of the sear to get the safety working again and in many instances simply opted to not use the safety. The man you speak of was willing to hone this front face. I do the same and you can see photos of this in the Accurizing book. I also want you guys to take note that of late, I have seen a few guys who think that owning my books is the same as having read them. It is not. The books don't work when they are sitting on your side table, they have to be read and followed step by step. The order of the steps is as crucial as the steps themselves. The point being to make this entire process easier for you. Andrew started this thread by posting his step 1 inspection. He is now moving onto the next preliminary steps and I hope he continues this way, without jumping ahead, without being over eager. I do not however want him to post all of his steps in detail. Those who want the low down, need to buy and follow the books for themselves. In any case, if you want the rewards, you have to go through each of these steps, not just pick and choose or skim read. This shows a lack of respect to me as the author who busted his balls to make something of value to you, while at the same time you sell yourselves short. In the worst case scenarios, I find some derailed projects to be a form of self sabotage. Be patient and have pride in yourselves and what you do. I sometimes think I have more confidence in my readers, than some have in themselves. Suffice to say, I believe you can achieve what you want to achieve, provided you have very clear goals and again follow the steps.
09 May 2017 @ 09:51 am (GMT)	Quote this Bob Mavin Re: Howa Project Good advice Nathan.. All experts till the shit hits the fan, "oh I'll read the instructions now".
09 May 2017 @ 11:25 am (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Cheers all for the encouragement and advice. Cheers also for the compound Nathan. Some if the crosswords used to pack he boxes with were incomplete or untouched so that will keep me busy while waiting for compounds to cure and harden. I had intended to shoot the rifle tomorrow and get get an idea of accuracy before then proceed as outlined. Like a before/after type of renovation deal. I note your above comment and would like to pause and ask that if you would advise against doing so I will change my plans. It was only to satisfy my curiosity and also to give weight to your methods for those questioning them. A few in my world are doing so. Essentially to slap down "well you'll never know the rifle could have shot like that before all the work". Thaks again :)
09 May 2017 @ 11:44 am (GMT)	Quote this Nathan Foster Re: Howa Project By all means, show your before after groups Andrew. These will not effect the security of information. But do not put yourself under immense spotlight pressure either. I see too many people more interested in blogging their lives than living their lives which often puts us in awkward situations, especially when learning. So if you want to post your groups then sure, but if you start to feel under pressure as you continue, do not feel that you then have to post sub half inch groups as justification. Go at your own pace and allow the process to unfold.
09 May 2017 @ 01:12 pm (GMT)	Quote this Martin Taylor Re: Howa Project Andrew the knockers will always poke shit at things they don't fully understand!! As l said earlier & Nathan has expressed as strongly as possible, take your time and follow the steps...... They just work. The knowledge gained will serve you well and will be built on as you go.
10 May 2017 @ 05:36 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Hey guys, I think I may have ended up with a successful break in! This photo was taken after round 8 was fired (but before the clean). I went with 2 shots, clean then 3 shots, clean then 3 shots then 4. Afterwards I shot another 10 and ended up with a similar amount of copper fouling. I currently have some Hoppes No9 in the barrel as I'd like to know how long it takes to work on the copper in there. I was unable to sight in however, this is due to the way the range operates. People breaking in barrels are left to their own devices to shoot into the mound. Not the targets. I did try to sight on the final 10 shots but it wasn't a success. Had a guy next to me with a spotter and a guy behind me but we were unable to get on paper (A4 size) from 100yds. I'd love to know your feed back on the rate of fouling. I personally would assume it is around a normal rate but this is my first centrefire. No photos for groups this week sadly.
10 May 2017 @ 05:47 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Should point out that the lands are at roughly 9 and 1 o'clock postions. Maybe 9:30/1 o'clock position. You'll notice the deviations in the muzzle.
10 May 2017 @ 06:47 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project I should also mention this photo makes the copper look heavier than it is. I't really is a very light layer.[b]
10 May 2017 @ 08:44 pm (GMT)	Quote this Martin Taylor Re: Howa Project That level of fouling is normal for a Howa. I find many like to be lapped as per Nathan's instructions with autosol. If you have limited range zero at 25 yards and from memory it should put you 3" high at 100 or there abouts with a 168 pill
10 May 2017 @ 09:27 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Cheers Martin, It's good to know. The range I have is 900yds with 100yd shooting stations except at 400yds. For some reason they don't shoot from there. The sight in section is at 25yds which would be sufficient for most to get on paper at 100 and then go from there. It's just the way the range operate, take it or leave it. I will take it and save myself an hours drive to the next range that shoots when I am free to do so. I did notice it was high. I was using the 150gr PowerShok by Federal. Will continue with them for now.
17 May 2017 @ 02:49 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project First round grouping. This is after initial 4 shot sight in at 25yds. Ammo was Federal PowerShok 130gr Speer HP factory MV rated at 3050fps. Second group started stringing right on shots 2 and 3. Third group (4 shots). Shots 2 and 4 are the 2 touching. 1st shot was on the vertical bar. 4th group, again shots 2 and 4 touching, 1st is the high one and 3rd is the low. Initially, not happy but it something to work with. I am in the process of lapping the lugs and adjusting trigger. Hoping that pulling apart and adjusting weight of pull then replacing the action back into the stock may eliminate double grouping type patterns???
17 May 2017 @ 06:14 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Arvo update. I spent the afternoon adjusting the trigger, and lapping the lugs. I managed about 650 or so bolt cycles before they got even enough as per the accurising book. I lost count after 500 or so. I pulled the scope and rail off for a proper cleaning and then reduced the trigger pull weight to about 850gm or 1lb 14oz ( (very rough measurement using kitchen scales and some string). I used Jon's method of reducing the width of the actuator rather than reducing the spring. This way the acuator spring can still be used to increase weight if required. I greased the underside of the action while it was out and up the underside of the barrel. Trigger was lubed with Long Life. A ver productive and pleasing afternoon after a somewhat disappointing morning shooting some not so tight groups.
18 May 2017 @ 02:49 pm (GMT)	Quote this Andrew Murray Re: Howa Project Similarly, I forgot to mention the mag box is pinching, no movement whatsoever. I am deciding where to remove some material from the top or whether to replace with a detahcable mag. I think I will go the removal first and then go for the replacement if I make a dog's breakfast of it.