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> Recoil reduction
Recoil reduction
@ 05:28 pm (GMT) |
Dan DunnAm planning on putting a mercury recoil reducer in the wooden stock of my 30-06 Savage 111. Have had multiple retinal tears thought to be related to the recoil. Want to use on elk so really don't want to go down in caliber. Would appreciate your thoughts and advice. |
Replies
@ 06:27 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Recoil reductionHi DanWe put a mercury recoil reducer in a 9.3x62 Sako 85, its nice to shoot. Only weighs about 8.5lbs Bob |
@ 10:14 pm (GMT) |
Jim MoseleyRe: Recoil reductionWhat's the recoil reduction difference between the mercury and a muzzle brake? |
@ 11:03 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Recoil reductionAs I understand it, a brake is more effective- but the noise remains an issue.Do you have access to suppressors in your location Dan. This could also be an option. Otherwise, I see no reason why you shouldn't use a mercury reducer. Rifle fit is equally important as is shooting technique. A lot of guys get beat up from either minor or major discrepancies in technique. There is no need for this. Have a look at the hold that forend article in the rifle accuracy section of the KB on this site. |
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@ 11:59 pm (GMT) |
Dan DunnRe: Recoil reductionAppreciate the advice. I believe suppressors are a possibility but perhaps more expense and hassle with having to apply to the Feds for a license to have one.If one did the mercury recoil reducer, would the integrity of the wood stock be an issue? |
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@ 06:14 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Recoil reductionHi Dan. The more I look into this, the more I think we need to be a bit more careful. I was pretty slap dash when I said I said that I see now reason why you cannot employ a mercury reducer. The recoil reduction is as I said, less than that of a brake or suppressor and when I think about your issues, I realize that I need to be more careful in addressing this. My apologies.A recoil reducer is generally fitted to the butt stock of shotguns. Some folk nitice the difference, others notice nothing. In other words- its a very subtle change. For my own part, I would prefer to see the forend inletted and the reducer fitted and epoxied in place, This helps keep the rifle muzzle heavy as some of the recoil that effects us is not so much the push back, but the upwards force- that's the bit that can whip your head back. There is a combination of both forces at work- stock design and pitch have a pronounced effect. I think perhaps you need to really have a good look at the rifle first. I have some questions I need you to answer. How far do you walk when hunting? What type of rifle carry weight is acceptable? Would you be willing to put funds towards a new rifle? Example- A semi custom based on an M700 action (see .30-06 rifle in my bedding video- tips and tricks). If this is not within your budget, please say so. Do you shoot off a bipod? Do you hold the forend of the rifle and use a sling when shooting. Or do you use the crossed arm method that is common. If you don't mind, what is your approximate height? If you could answer these questions, it would be a great help. |
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@ 12:20 am (GMT) |
DanRe: Recoil reductionEnjoyed the article and advice in "Hold that forend". Have recently adopted using shooting stix.There is some extra weight there so am thinking I probably wouldn't want a rifle over about 9 lbs. Have considered that perhaps a semiautomatic might reduce recoil. My savage is new but if necessary I could sell it for something better. It's stock is wooden, which is beautiful to my eye, but if synthetic yields less recoil that would be ok. A slightly smaller caliber would be okay too, if advantageous. I believe I've read you as saying a 270 can take anything down on the American Continent. As for ht., I'm 6 ft, 175 lbs and very fit. Often walk a half mile from the truck while hunting but may hike for several hours at altitude in the mountains. Just turned 66 y.o. A semi custom rifle with very excellent accuracy and recoil reduction would probably be a worthwhile investment as it would be my go to deer and elk gun. Any estimate as to cost and availability. Season is now less than two mos. away. Thanks again for the investment of time, energy and thought into this project. |
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@ 12:31 am (GMT) |
Dan DunnRe: Recoil reduction(this post in lieu of the above post disappearing into cyber space for some unknown reason NF)Hey Nathan. I like the way you think outside the box! And yes I hold the forend and enjoyed your article on that topic. Would be up for experimentation if the cost estimate is agreeable. To your queries, yes I walk a lot, and often on steep mountains at altitude in snow. So, wt a bit of a concern. Around 9 lbs would be acceptable tho. Ht is six ft and R shoulder about 1/2- to 3/4 in. shorter due to old clavicle fractures. Wt is 175 lb. Started using shooting sticks recently and have seldom shot from a prone position. Hunting season is just around the corner (< 2 mo.) so time is limited. Thanks for your input on this - not only comfort- but visual health issue. |
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@ 12:54 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Recoil reductionNo worries Dan.OK, I am not so sure about setting you up with anything too heavy if you are going to be climbing high. The type of custom I was talking about would be a basic M700, semi varmint barrel (old Sako Hunter contour) and possibly an HS precision stock- old type Sendero (PSV-029) which is not bulky. But it is hard to say whether this would suit you and also, you mention wanting to be up and running in two months. I have made a list of the current Tikka heavy barrels rifles on another page. These are not actually very heavy due to the use of synthetics. This could be an option and have you up and running in a short time. But such a rifle may be special order for you. You would need to check on this. Otherwise, there is a degree of merit in stepping down to the .270 Win and driving a premium bullet fast (hand loads). But you will find that there are .30-06 fans here on this forum who like you, have used the .30-06 and would not want to part with it. Your height is about right for current stock designs- no need for any stock alterations. You are the same height as me. But you do need a straight recoiling stock that offers a decent surface area for a good forend hold. I believe you will find great benefit in focusing on technique first and foremost. If we could do this in a two phase manner, that would be ideal. Step one, sort the rifle and technique. Step two, look at a brake or suppressor if recoil is still a problem- or look at down loading a touch. There are many ways to skin this cat. A .280 Rem could offer you the perfect balance between a .270 and .30-06. In this manner, you could use heavy bullets if you want to and even if loaded on the slow side, these bullets would maintain velocity. But finding a .280 rifle is a whole new ball game- definitely a custom jobby. I would appreciate the thoughts of our other forum members to offset any of my personal bias. Which way would you go Bob, Jim, Marty, SL? Rem M700 and factory 7mm Rem Mag barrel mated to an HS PSV-029 stock from my third book... 
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@ 01:28 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Recoil reductionWas trying to get my bloody password right whilst you posted Nathan! Got a couple of different and some not so different!Dan the first thing that catches my eye is that you are now using shooting sticks! l do not use these so bear with me a bit! l see others holding the sticks and not holding the fore stock, this would exaggerate the recoil in an already low combed stock. The low comb stock as a big effect as Nathan has said, l have tried different stocks on my 30-06 and the effect is very pronounced, even experimenting with altering the original to straighten the comb. So firstly do you still hold the fore stock or not? Do you use a sling wrap? Also not shore of your ranges or bullet weights you prefer but a lighter weight fast copper projectile may be an option to reduce the felt recoil a bit. I'm not a huge fan of these but with shot placement they seem to work for others. And one last thing, my favourite is scope eye relief, if its short you will shy away from the stock adding to your problems. Cheers Marty |
@ 03:46 am (GMT) |
thomas kitchenRe: Recoil reductionI'm here to learn so any feed back to my comments are greatly appreciated.i have an old parker hale 303 that up till recently was my main hunting rifle i upgraded the scope on it a while ago, while i was sighting it in and having a play, it was nailing my shoulder (30 plus rounds) what i discovered that the recoil paid thats probably 20 years old had gone hard in the centre but was soft on the outside so rather then spreading the recoil over something 50mm wide it was closer to 25 mm wide. i fitted a limbsaver and find it much more comfortable to shoot now. 2 months is a tight time frame if money is tight to (when is it never tight) in nz muzzle breaks start at bout $120 would it be worth threading your muzzle fitting a break to get you through the hunting season then applying for the right permits etc for a suppressor as the muzzle would already be threaded |
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@ 04:19 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Recoil reductionHi Dan. My 2 bobs worthI have a 30-06 built on a Rem 700 action, HS Precision stock, 24” #3 Maddco barrel, Sightron S111 3.5-10 mil dot scope, 9 ¾ lb all up, love it! I shoot 165gn SST or 165 Sierra GK @ 2900fps, I’m 67yrs old & 80kg the recoil does not bother me at all. I use homemade shooting sticks, as the grass is longish, most shots are at 150-300m. I put the butt on my knee and hold the fore end down with the sling. I shoot a lot of Deer, can’t remember missing for a long time using my sticks other than last trip a head shot at 30m ??%&@??. For the longer shots I use my pack & sling. I have access to a few different cals including 7mm RM but wouldn’t swap my 30-06 for anything else. It flat out does it and doesn’t blow them to bits. I use a range finder good to 700m and have my mil dots hold over printed & laminated out to 700m. I cull Fallow, Reds, Rusa & Samba/Rusa cross Deer, pigs & goats for a few properties and it’s a 30-06 for me!!! My mate has a suppressor fitted to one of his rifles, I won't shoot with him, too bloody noisy, painful, as I don't wear hearing protection while hunting. Cheers Bob |
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@ 04:30 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Recoil reductionMy rifle looks just like the picture above but blued action. 10lb loaded, I hump that a long way, up & down some big hills, doesn't bother me & keeps me fit. but I drink heaps of Gatorade otherwise I cramp up.Cheers Bob |
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@ 05:55 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Recoil reductionThomas is right with his recoil pad, a limb saver on my sons Tikka 308 made a big difference to the felt recoil on a light rig.If you decide on a change, a quick option could be a stock Remington 700, 30-06 dropped into HS stock like Nathan & Bob have posted. Would be an easy option without the custom build. Heaps of options on well-designed stocks and accessories and probably as cheap to play with as things get. The stock in Nathans picture works very well, l find the bigger fore stock a big plus! Yet another would be a Tikka T3 dropped into a B&C Medallist Stock, nice light weight mountain gun with a good stock, but very limited with other stock designs. Heaps of ideas to work on Dan! |
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@ 02:01 pm (GMT) |
Jim MoseleyRe: Recoil reductionYou never stated your max range that you wanted to achieve. Since the Savage is easy to re-barrel, why not entertain the idea of the 6.5-o6. The 140 gr Amax is a very efficient bullet and can do lots of damage at long distance. The top barrel makers are building pre-threaded barrels that are top notch shooters. I would also go with a better stock. Personally, I'll will always be a fan of the 7 mag :-) |
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@ 02:45 pm (GMT) |
Dan DunnRe: Recoil reductionThank all of you guys for your suggestions. They are certainly appreciated.Jim, as to the 6.5- 06, that is very intriguing but would it be adequate for elk at 350 yds.? |
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@ 06:02 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Recoil reductionHi guys6.5-06 is a good calibre I've used it along with 25-06 with 140gn pills but the difference in recoil between it and a 30-06 shooting 150gn pills is hardly noticeable. With a 30-06 you have the advantage of using up to 220gn pills down to 125's for smaller animals. Not suitable for really long range but a great hunting calibre. I’m not a big fan of Barnes but I load 130gn Barnes TTSX at 3200fps for my 40kg Daughter, very flat trajectory, hardly any meat damage. haven't shot an Elk with them but they certainly drop a Red stag at 350yds if you put it in the right spot. With a 30-06 you can load it hard or download it and if you lose your ammo you can just about buy dies & ammo etc at the corner shop. I've used a lot of wildcats some of them great calibres, but for me, I ticked all my boxes when I got my well balanced 30-06. Sorry for dribbling on but a well thought out 30-06 will handle a lot hunting situations. Cheers Bob |
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@ 06:26 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Recoil reductionI'm with you on this one Bob, the 30-06 has to be one of the most versatile calibres ever made with terrific factory offerings in rifles, loaded cartridges and projectiles.With the options you have been offered Dan l think you will find the right combination in that calibre with ease! Close quarter snap shots or longer sit and wait type applications it will work well for you. It is still my favourite all round calibre and is very easy to work with. Technique & stock (or rifle) design as already said are the areas l would explore before shifting cal for elk sized game. |
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@ 09:05 pm (GMT) |
Jim MoseleyRe: Recoil reductionThe 6.5 will do it's job and long as you can do yours. Run the numbers on a 140gr/6.5 vs a 180gr/30 and I'll bet you see that the ballistics on the 6.5 are superior to the 180. But the final results depends on how much you practise and at what distance. Good luck. |
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@ 10:30 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Recoil reductionHi JimI have a 6.5-06 24"and a 30-06 24". my 165 SST's kill Red Deer better than my 6.5 with 140's. At 350m the 165's are 120 ft-lbs better off than the 140 6.5, at 200m the 30 is 220 ft lbs better and a bigger hole. Both sighted in at 225m there's 1/2" diff at 350m. I started out with the 6.5-06 but it was iffy on Samba that's why I went to the 30-06. My 6.5-06 is a good rifle but it seldom gets used now, I think the 30-06 is heaps more versatile. The calibres I mainly use now is 6mm rem & 30-06 & 358 Winchester. Just for the record at 350m my 180gn 30-06 hits harder, kills better than the 140's & 165's. Cheers Bob |
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@ 11:05 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Recoil reductionI forgot to add, Both my 6.5-06 & 30-06 have 24" barrels, when loaded to the same pressure the 6.5-06 140's are doing 2900fps, the 30-06 165's are doing the same 2900fps. The difference in recoil is not worth mentioning My 40kg Daughter shoots both.Bob |
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@ 01:06 am (GMT) |
thomas kitchenRe: Recoil reductionhi dan just wondering what optic your running on your rig? if your running a light weight one it might be worth up sizing atleast you'll get some benefit from carrying extra weight rather then just adding weights |
@ 08:07 pm (GMT) |
sllindsayRe: Recoil reductionI was out of town so missed my chance to weigh in on this thread earlier. I won't argue caliber here (but I love my 308!), but I have some observations on platform. Nathan got me into using Rem 700 actions on semi-customs and I could not be happier. With a Timney trigger, they shoot like a dream (I have three). Since time is short for this season, I would suggest buying a Rem SPS in your desired caliber and find a load that will get you by for this season. Then in the off-season, bed it in an HS stock - in my experience recoil was really reduced - replace the trigger, and consider a little heavier barrel to help with recoil.I also have an out-of-the-box Tikka T3 Lite (308) that, totally unmodified, shoots half a dozen factory loads at an inch at 100yds and two at 0.5 inch. It is a light and versatile rifle that is so easy to carry. From what I read here, though, it is not as easy as the Rem 700 to modify later. I would also outfit it with the Sightron SIII 3.5-10x44mm scope. The combination of Rem 700 platform and Sightron scope makes the ideal rig for me. Shoot it out-of-the-box now and modify later. And less recoil in the bargain. sl |
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@ 06:02 pm (GMT) |
thomas kitchenRe: Recoil reductionhi guys this turned up in my email some how from dan think it was ment to be posted on hereGood thought Tom! It's a Nikon, Buckmaster I believe. Never thought I 'd be trying to shoot over 400 yds/m so thot it was probably adequate. After listening to all you guys I'm starting to get interested it longer ranges tho. At what kind of distances do you need to have to have antiparallex optics? Have pretty well decided to get a brake installed, though I hope and pray I never hurt anyone's hearing. May also change out the recoil pad. Any science out there as to which pad absorbs the best? Will definetly be working in using the sling and forend hold techniques as well. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, thots and experiences. Planning on buying the books being offered on this site as well. |
@ 06:41 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Recoil reductionIve just fitted a decellerator slip on pad to two of my firearms and really like it. very soft and squishy. limbsavers get raved about a lot.now from personal experience with recoil induced issues I suggest you drop projectile weight and change to nice big soft recoil pad before getting too drastic and see how you get on. when I first got my mod 70 lightweight .270 I had issues and started to flinch/pull shots really badly thin hard red rubber butt plate got biffed out and replaced by a bisley shotgun pad Norma 150s got changed down to 130grn other factory loadings (PMC mostly) and horrible factory trigger set at what seemed like 400lb set down to 3lb sorted issue out very quickly and the recent addition after 20 years of use of a suppressor has tamed her down to below .223 levels of sound and felt recoil my .12ga shotgun has 11oz of lead shot in a canister tightly wedged inside buttstock to tame 3" steel loads over opening weekend..it works but not fun to carry over a long walk. |
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@ 07:15 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Recoil reductionDan please don't think this rude but l think you are doing it the wrong way around!As Mike has just reiterated go the recoil pad, Limbsaver or Pacmyer Decelerator first and a lighter suitable pill then see where you are at with the changes in shooting style Nathan has shown you! I say this because the muzzle brakes are bloody hard on the ears and blow shit everywhere. A last resort unless you are shooting Target/Long Range with hearing protection on with a big cal. They tend to be used on smaller cals to mask technique issues, l thought this is what l needed until talking it through with Nathan & reading his books. l changed my shooting style and stock shape and I’m no hero with recoil, now l constistantly group my bigger cals running 210-285 grain pills without pain etc. |
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