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> Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?
Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?
@ 03:44 pm (GMT) |
Drew PigottHello, I have been looking into getting a medium bore for close range hunting for a while. I've settled on not using the rifle past 250-300 yards as a maximum. I'd like to use a low power 1.5-5 or 2.5-8 power scope and mainly hunt wild boar and possibly elk in heavy timber ( maybe African plains game in the future? Wishful thinking? ). I've been considering getting a .35 whelen or 9.3x62 mauser. Which is your favorite and why? I was considering using 250 grain bullets in the .35 or 286 grain bullets in the 9.3. Is it worth building a custom bolt action .35 whelen or saving and going with the 9.3x62 CZ 550? I'm only interested in a bolt gun. What are your thoughts everyone? Thanks, Drew Pigott |
Replies
@ 05:31 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Yeah the arm is a bit rubbery at the moment Nath and l'm just not fox shooting anymore so a rebirth into a fast weilding stalking/dogging gun is spot on for the Howa!The more l thought about it l just couldnt change the 30-06 it just works with no fuss and shoots to good! I will let you know when it's up and running Bob but it wont be for a while as l have a project just started. I will contact Maddco and see what they can do for me! It would seem a very under rated calibre! If l had a long actoin Rem kicking about l would still love to try the Whelen though! Cheers Marty |
@ 03:40 am (GMT) |
Mark WhitakerRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?DrewGoing back to your original post. I have a Minox ZA5 1.5-8x32 which I have on a 7mm-08. Good optics, 1 inch tube, 1/4 inch turrets and a good price. This scope may be a good choice for this build. Mark |
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@ 09:39 am (GMT) |
Drew PigottRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Mark,That does sound like a good scope. That's a pretty ideal magnifications range as well. Thank you but I like to stick to Leupold even though some of their models are a little dated in design to say the least. I have found them to be practically bulletproof when it comes to reliability with good eye relief too boot. All the best, Drew Pigott |
@ 02:23 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Just to confuse things I am another Martin Taylor. Having seen the performance of a 9.3 x 62 in Namibia and how versatile it is I purchased a Sauer 202 on my return. I use 250g Barnes X and have shot muntjac roe and boar with it. Heavy and slow might be a more traditional approach, one has to be mindful of and reasonable at estimating distance, but to-date I have been delighted with its performance.The Barnes performs more like a cutting tool. I have not had any meat damage even with the muntjac which taken with a 6.5 x 57 or 7 x 64 using Nosler partition 100g and 140g respectively makes a mess of the front end. On the range at Bisley I have fired 20 shots at running deer target and did not feel tired or uncomfortable through effects of recoil. (6 shots with a .375 H&H and I had enough!) The 9.3 is an extremely popular boar calibre on the European mainland and it also will be seen quite regularly in Africa where it has earned respect Regards Martin Taylor2 |
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@ 08:44 pm (GMT) |
Drew PigottRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Martin,Hello! I am sold on the heavy and slow type of hunting cartridges. It's also fun to even unintentionally double up on wild boar because of your bullets penetrative abilities. Not many .243 Winchesters will do that! I take it that you have a preference for a 9.3x62 Mauser over a 375 H&H? All the best, Drew |
@ 04:08 pm (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?The 358W and 35 Whelen have always been two of my favorites. Both of these cartridges make very efficient use of their powder capacity and will not erode barrels/throats like the firebreathers will. Both have a nice long neck which is a pet peeve I have with so many modern cartridges. The Whelen has - just like its parent case, the '06 - ability to seat very heavy, high sectional density bullets without intruding into the powder space. The wounding and shock power of the 35's is substantial, and recoil is manageable in a rifle of some weight with a well designed stock. If/when well designed ULD 35 caliber bullets are made the Whelen in particular could be a tremendously flexible short range/long range cartridge. Elmer Keith appreciated and used extensively the 338 with a 270 grain speer hot core and the Whelen or the 9.3 could be equally effective with the right bullets and loads. As for the 358, probably the most underated/underused cartridge ever.Cast bullets offer economy, they are easier on the throat and barrel, they will deliver more velocity (+10- 15%) than a jacketed round. But unless one is willing to take the time to paper patch a soft, pure lead bullet (as the old Buffalo Hunters did) expansion just wont happen with hard cast (14 - 20 brinell) cast bullets. When using hard cast for hunting one is forced to the 44 - 45 calibers and shot placement remains key to dropping game. I am very interested in Rocky Mountains efforts on the VLD/ULD front and encourage George to continue with his work in hopes of finding a bullet that will not fragment so much. If we are hunting then meat loss becomes an issue as does bloodshot meat from hyper-velocity bullets. This is where medium bores can really shine depending on how they are loaded and the range at which they are used. Great boar hunt story! |
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@ 04:32 pm (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?PS - A lot more can be accomplished with the further evolution of bullet design than will be obtainable with new cartridges and powders. As fascinating as the study of cartridges/calibers is, we already have plenty to work with! The old standbys are simply hard to beat when everything is taken into consideration and I include ease of feeding from the magazine, magazine capacity, barrel life, bullet availability and so many other factors.If modern hunters can dope out wind drift, bullet drop, uphill/downhill for shots at 800 yards they can certainly make adjustments for shooting different bullet weights/shapes/loads from the same cartridge in the same gun. This is where the 30-06 simply has no competition as an all-around hunting cartridge IMHO. With Trail Boss available for reduced (and safe to load) velocity, the hunting cartridges that stand out to me from the multitudes are the 25-06, 7mag (I do not like the belt as it requires an additional step in reloading to control the bulge above the belt that occurs after a couple of full-length resizes), 30-06, 35 Whelen, 375 Ruger (no belt and standard length action), and the 458 Lott. One can always reduce velocity by down loading but hot loading is hard on the case and limited by case capacity in smaller cases. |
@ 05:18 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Sorry Gregg, just off topic a bit.shouldn't be having problems with the belt or any bulging Gregg. I have come across this once before but it was the chamber at fault, not the cartridge design. If you ever go the route of a belted magnum again, opt for loose headspace, then neck size. If you headspace off the shoulder, you will wear your brass out before any bulging takes effect. If you have a look at my 7mm Practical, it is reliant on ease of reloading, no special steps or extra care- just a load and shoot cartridge. The 7mm rem Mag has been my most common client build for many years, I have never had a customer complaint about reloading and I like to keep tabs on my clients where possible. So please take that as a positive. You have nailed it with the comment that we already have enough cartridges to work with and that we need to focus on bullet design. If I could take this a step further regarding your Rocky Mountain bullet comments... It is extremely important that you understand what is at stake as an end user asking a long range bullet manufacturer to make a less frangible bullet. I have tried my very best to explain this in great detail in my last book. The consequences of market driven rifle and cartridge designs are often disastrous in comparison to educating hunters towards optimum rifle and cartridge designs based on fundamental engineering principles and external/terminal ballistics. We are now utilizing different hunting methods (shooting to greater distances) so we need to develop more of an understanding of how the bullet needs to perform if we are to achieve these goals in an ethical manner (clean killing). |
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@ 06:45 am (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Nathan, thank you for clarifying this somewhat arcane subject and correcting my misunderstanding. I salute you and others who have developed the skill and the tools to hunt at extreme range. For myself I feel that even if the bullet is capable beyond 300 yards, I am not so I prefer to limit myself to shots within that range and develop my stalking skills. Within these parameters the Whelen, 9.3 and 358W are ideal cartridges......I hope I have managed to (gracefully?) get back on topic. : ) |
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@ 03:25 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?I remember a time when accuracy was generally thought of as "you got what you got". Bedding seemed like a dark art and precision shooting appeared to be something that happened at a club.The medium bores fell even more into this "you get what you get" category. Even recently I saw an article in a gun magazine where the author said medium bores (or was it big bores / I switched off) are not capable of great accuracy. Total bollocks. We have come a long way with general rifle accuracy, a man who is good with his hands and has an interest in rifle accuracy can trick up his rifle (if the rifle is of potential) to shoot with precision accuracy, regardless of the bore diameter. From this, rather than a 3 MOA grouping medium bore, we can work towards reliable 300 yard (or more) accuracy. But this does require a head shift. During the course of my research, I remember taking on a second hand M700 .338 Win Mag. It had very poor accuracy potential unbedded and its recoil would have hindered less experienced shooters. I can remember thinking, I wonder how many animals are gut shot with these. As received, the rifle was quite hopeless. Those lacking experience or knowledge might conclude that as long as the cartridge is of very high velocity, the bullet will reach its target and do the business. Many of the magnums are thought of in this manner. But as we gain more experience, we begin to learn the importance of rifle accuracy and so forth. A little bit of time spent understanding the trajectory of a mild powered medium bore can pay huge dividends. In the extreme, some hunters may wish to carry range finder binos and have a simple 400 yard drop chart attached to their rifle butt stock. A simple key factor is to call your cut off point at 1800fps. In other words, use this as the maximum range for your big bore. Below this velocity parameter, wounding becomes minimal and wind drift is much harder to dope for the medium bore. |
@ 08:13 pm (GMT) |
Steve NagelRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Drew: I had a 9.3x62 built 20 years ago on a mauser action with a 26 in barrel. Had the old redfield wide eye with the rang finder and bullet drop turret. I shot norma 231 gr semi hollow points. dont remember the powder, but I held a 4'' group at 500 yds with it. When I ran out of those normas, I went to the Barns 250 sp. I shot them at 2600 fps with 4064. Still very accurate. I was so impressed with the 9.3x62 when I shot a bull in the neck at 100yds and cork screwed his feet into the ground. Shot a couple Bulls with them at 500 yds with the redfield scope. Just raised it 12 ins and shoot. Very little damage ever done to any meat. I shot a couple Spikes at 200 yds and did not damage much meat. Hit a cow in the hind quarter and did damage at 300 yds. Hit a Bull at 400yds and did very little damage. BUT back then I had to fire form all the brass and there were very few bullets for them. Loved this gun right up to the time my horse fell on it and bent the barrel. BUT my advise for you, for the hunting you are going to do is go to the 338-06. A wider range of bullets. Brass is easy to come by and it will do the job you are asking a rifle to do. |
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@ 11:01 pm (GMT) |
Drew PigottRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Hi Steve,I see that you posted some time ago. I just recently saw this and I'm sorry it has taken time to reply. It sounds like you have had very good success with your old 9-3.. To bad the horse fell on it! I've been looking to get a new Whelen in the next few months but sourcing one has been fairly difficult to say te least. I've been considering buying a new stainless .30-06 and re-barreling. I have indeed thought a good deal about a 338-06 for a while. You are spot on that it is easier to find .33 cal bullets. I have wondered though if most of those bullets would be to 'hard' for fast killing of light game like whitetail deer. I've looked at 200 gn SST's and 215 gn GameKings and they should do the trick. 250's of any flavor should be just fine for heavy gave at 338-06 velocities I would think. All of this leaves me asking myself though if the 338-06 is worth it as a custom build when I can easily obtain the 338 Win Mag and factory brass! I certainly do not need the power but I believe I could shoot it well with practice. I'm quite fond of a 9 pound rifle and I believe this should help tame the rifle some. Nathan- In regards to the frontal are of the bullet; have you seen much of a noticeable difference between 338, 358 and 375 bullets in regards to effect on game? Particularly light game (deer)? All the best, Drew Pigott |
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@ 01:54 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Hi Drew, your suspicions are correct, many .338 bullets can carry too much momentum for light or lean game. The .358 bore boast both wider frontal area but also lower SD's which all adds up to a measurable difference in performance. Bullet selection for the .338 is therefore somewhat more critical, your suggestion of the 200gr SST is optimal.I should mention, kills with stout .338 bullets tend to be clean (like a bow shot). The concern here is speed of killing and tracking etc. |
@ 02:43 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?G'day DrewWe have a custom 338-06 good cal if you need to reach out a bit but I still prefer a soft sierra GK 225 358 pill in my little bolt 358win for most critters out to300yds. I shot a few Fallow with it just before the rut for venison a week ago. Love the wallop it makes but with little meat damage. I'll try and post a photo of a nice trophy buck my mate shot. Bob |
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@ 03:12 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?See how I go???? 
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@ 03:27 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Well I'll be!!! It worked.This is a nice Buck. I'm not a trophy hunter but my mate Luke Peters wanted a good one for his den, very even head, it'll score over 220 Douglas. It had an inch of fat on it's back and we took all the venison, shanks, neck chops the lot. The spare ribs were beautiful, smoked!! 6mm Remington 100gn Sierra GK @3050 fps high forward shoulder shot side on at 220yds, dropped on impact. The projectile was visible under the skin on the opposite shoulder after busting a lot of bone. Cheers Bob |
@ 04:13 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?You've sold me Bob. When i burn out my 308 barrel I'm going to replace it with a 358. I have been reading good things about that cartridge for many years. Now I just have to get some shooting done. Should be out after some fallow in June on an ADA property. Can't wait. |
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@ 05:15 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?G'day MikeNothing wrong with a 308W, great calibre. I've shot a lot of Fallow with 165 sierras in a 308 loaded down a little. I just like the 358win for the lack of meat damage and its good on the bigger animals. Cheers Bob |
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@ 06:25 pm (GMT) |
Drew PigottRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Nathan,Thanks for confirming my suspicions. The 338-06 would be great if I hunted heavy game predominantly, but most of the game will be whitetail deer and boar. Just a thought.. I've read some very good things about re-boring a rifle barrel to a larger caliber. There is a gentleman out of Oregan (JES) that provides this service among many others. I spoke with him and he will bore to .35 caliber (cut rifling) and completely finish chamber and fit a rifle for a very reasonable price. I'm thinking of going this way as the Remington I wanted is discontinued. If it turns out a botch, I could always re barrel is the way I look at it. Bob, Thanks for the insight. I'll certainly stay with the 35 Whelen. I believe I'll most likely work up some loads with the 225 grain GameKings. They should really hammer boar. Have you used any 250 grain bullets? I've heard good things about 250 grain Hot Cors and Partitions. I'm mainly looking for something for Elk as that's te largest game I'll be after. All the best, Drew Pigott |
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@ 07:28 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Hi DrewOne of my mates uses 250gn Woodleigh's in his 358W with good results on Samba. I've used a few different 225gn pills in my 358W but come to the conclusion that I'm wasting money, cheaper 225gn Sierra game kings work great! I load them to 2550fps, they hammer big Deer. I prefer the 358W to the 35 Whelan, I don't need anymore power and the 358 makes for a nice compact accurate rifle. Nothing has run away from it yet and I've shot some big critters with less than perfect shots for the same result, DEAD DEER I'll try & post another photo! <a href="http://s345.photobucket.com/user/rmavin/media/emailSambacrossRusa_zpsa4fbedde.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p400/rmavin/emailSambacrossRusa_zpsa4fbedde.jpg" border="0" alt="Big Samba/Rusa photo emailSambacrossRusa_zpsa4fbedde.jpg"/></a> |
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@ 07:29 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Try again!!!
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@ 08:03 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?
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@ 09:58 pm (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?225 grain pill at 2550fps? Jeepers, i'm doing some serious counting on my fingers here... I'm pushing the 168 AMAX at 2670 and according to Nathan, the 178 would be about 2550 out of my 20" barrel. AND it's over max recommended. That's some serious numbers you have there - and you say the 308 is good. No wonder nothing walks off after being shot. That's great performance for a short action. What barrel length are you running with? |
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@ 11:08 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?G'day MikeI'm talking about my 358 Winchester not 308! My 358win is a L579 Sako action, McMillan stock, 22" maddco barrel. I can get 2620fps with 225 Sierra's using cases formed from 308 Lapua palmer cases with the small rifle primer. Cheers Bob |
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@ 02:33 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: Anybody used a .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 Mauser?Yes I realise that Bob, I was trying to say that you are getting considerably more energy from your 358 than I can get out of my 308. For the same parent case it is performing way better than my 308. Your almost throwing that 225 as fast as my 168. Which has me scratching my head a little. As I said earlier, when it comes to changing out my barrel I will definitely be considering the 358. I have never heard a bad word about it from someone who has actually hunted with it. Probably has more to do with the barrel and chamber job I guess? |
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