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> P-14 found in the bottom drawer
P-14 found in the bottom drawer
@ 12:17 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanAs the headline says, the bottom drawer or my writing desk. Don't know how it got there, don't know who gave it to me. Looks as if someone had started modifying (sporterizing?) it. Has some issues, none too serious that alarm me. Some parts missing, but nothing I can't make, or find.Trying to find a good calibre now. Did a search on the forums for "P-14" and came across some good posts with some good suggestions. The one that really caught my eye was the .308 Norma. However, in one of the posts (sorry, my memory is failing, I can't remember who said what), it was mentioned that the bolt face did not need altering for the Norma. Mine will, not a big deal. If the face proves to be too difficult, I'll just turn the rim down on the cases. Barrel will more than likely be a Benchmark, 1-10" twist, 28" heavy bull (not quite straight taper), then it can do double duty at the bench and in the field. Had a look at the trigger mechanism. Looks like a military to me. Found a couple places that could use some modification to lighten the 12# pull and the 1/2" creep and the 1/4" overtravel (not really, but it seems that way). Seems to me I read somewhere here (memory fail yet again) that this type of Mauser-like action doesn't have the pillar on the front screw. The rear one is there, but I'm not sure if the front one is missing or if it ever had one. Anyone know? |
Replies
@ 02:30 am (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerHAW haw ! Churrrr bro... ewes fullas spoke funnyman aye! I'n gunna go on tha car ans two the lie-berry en see wots is your sisters uncles brothers dads eggloo is..... coz couzin Rangi's chooks is layed toos meny eggs an they stink! poo eh cuzzi. An that egg-loo bees the place ta flush dem stinky eggs aye....watts ya reckon Leverman? It be choice eh!Transtwisted from the Canadian to Maori te treaty inook o Aoteora kupa haka manual |
@ 05:20 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerreal sorry about that Paul i know it can be as an offensive as calling a kiwi an ozzie.what a laugh thou. not even owl, warwick us kiwi's don't sound like that bro, better watch it aye cause ill get my dad's brothers nephews cousins dogs owners great grandfathers nieces partner mates cousins aunties partners adopted brother on to you and he's real tough aye |
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@ 07:12 am (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerHey Tom. I grew up in Wairoa. East coast lolSo getting back to the subject. I posted some links to some information about case hardening before the "Lord of Long Range" Nathan got us slide tracked by being a "Hard case" . It was interesting reading about the Case Hardening process used for the Springfield 03 . They packed a box with chard bones and hide to provide the carbon to harden the bolts and other part's heating them to 700 odd degrees for a set time? The test was to bend a bolt and look at the way the hard casing cracked without the bolt breaking! Have a read its interesting how it used to be done.? |
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@ 03:44 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerThe case hardening agent that I ordered is in transit. There is no indication of when it will get here. It has to clear customs, which shouldn't be a problem (non-dangerous goods), but you never know with customs. I'm hoping within a week or two. |
@ 11:35 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerIt was a good read thanks Warwick.Yes, fingers crossed it flies through customs Paul. |
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@ 03:32 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerWell, just in case the Cherry Red is delayed, I ordered my bolt and associated parts this morning. Not too bad of a process: had to get an International Import Certificate (IIC) from Foreign Affairs ministry, which was basically fill out a form on their website. Then forwarded that to the American supplier in an email, called him on the phone, placed the order and he said they would ship tomorrow.With all paperwork already in place, I'm guessing two weeks tops to get my parts. We'll see what gets here first, the parts or the Cherry Red. Either way, it's golden. |
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@ 11:27 am (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerWell done Paul. Some times you have to jump through the Ring master's flaming hoops to get the bits of meat you want to chew on. Ive been looking at 358 cal projectiles in the states . They're a 3rd of the price there compared to NZ prices. The problem is that the US online stores aren't allowed to export ammunition components to foreign countries. Good luck with your project and parts. Cheers mate. |
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@ 10:23 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerIn a previous conversation with one gunsmith, and from comments made here, I tried to find a barrel with a larger diameter, somewhere around the 1.325" that is "spec" for the P-14. But, as we all know about specs, they are open to interpretation. I did find one barrel maker in Alberta who can supply me with a 1.3" barrel, and everyone else can supply 1.250", of course. In talking to one supplier, he pulled some "drop-in" or "pre-fit" off the shelf and measured them while we were on the phone. It turns out that specs aren't necessarily what you need to go by. For the most part, the knox of these barrels were 1.200" and the threads mic'd out at 1.124". That leaves even less to work with for a shoulder diameter, and makes a 1.250" barrel even more attractive. I'm going to check once more with my smith to see if he's comfortable with these diameters, and also ask what you all think about this. Any input, for or against, would be appreciated. Thanks, eh? |
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@ 10:44 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerVery interesting Paul.That takes it full circle Thomas where TF stated that in the past, they have fitted a regular barrel with no ills (but were themselves interested to look further into it). |
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@ 04:59 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerI'm not sure if this is going to come out right in print, so if it doesn't make sense, cut me some slack, eh?Why is the shoulder diameter critical? It is just a contact surface to pre-determine the depth of the barrel tenon. As long as the two mating surfaces are flat and square to each other, and not over-torqued to induce a deformation, you should be good to go. I'm just trying to get my head around this, so if there are any engineers in the crowd, let me know if I'm barking up a dead horse's ass. |
@ 10:13 pm (GMT) |
Grant LovelockRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerHey people, Grant here from TrueFliteFor Thomas's action we are fitting a 1.240 diameter Knox diameter barrel to it..... this allows for nearly 1.5mm shoulder to mate against the receiver face... given that we do all our barrels up to 70ft pounds of torque, I cant see that deforming the shoulder at all. The thread is what stops the barrel from flying off the end, so from a safety point of view, that is covered. The shoulder ultimately sets the head space so once that shoulder has been set and checked after fitting there should be no change at all. |
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@ 11:10 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerThanks, Grant. That is exactly what we needed to hear. |
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@ 11:17 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerAs I've said many previous times: I am a technological dinosaur. So I have to figure out how these interweb things work, and sometimes they just don't. So, to see the photos that I took, I suggest you right click on the link and open in a new window. Or you can fart around with the back button. I don't take any responsibility for what happens.First set of pics just showing the bolt lugs and how far or much they were lapped. https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNj_aoej3eujll_LB2lFrFxhAOmX1cQXzEgOi-a/photo/AF1QipOTyuWhLV6Vbv71Ka79rp752mEAnpu9mmFvV6-h [/url]https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNj_aoej3eujll_LB2lFrFxhAOmX1cQXzEgOi-a/photo/AF1QipNtLdi-VPQUYET7bc1h2-WkX6GDUIBYKYqrxNEf[/url] This next one is of the receiver showing the corresponding high and low points. https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNj_aoej3eujll_LB2lFrFxhAOmX1cQXzEgOi-a/photo/AF1QipPXVzYlP4n3l50z4Cd90hNoZtbSJEOlwo7g3vik Sure hope this works. |
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@ 11:20 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerI'll try the second one again.https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNj_aoej3eujll_LB2lFrFxhAOmX1cQXzEgOi-a/photo/AF1QipNtLdi-VPQUYET7bc1h2-WkX6GDUIBYKYqrxNEf |
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@ 11:22 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerhttps://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNj_aoej3eujll_LB2lFrFxhAOmX1cQXzEgOi-a |
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@ 11:24 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerSorry, guys. I should have just posted the last link with all the photos, but I didn't know if it would work. |
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@ 01:47 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerGetting ready for the bolt treatment and found this on the web:"If steel has been freshly ground, sanded, or polished, it will form an oxide layer on its surface when heated. As the temperature of the steel is increased, the thickness of the iron oxide will also increase. Although iron oxide is not normally transparent, such thin layers do allow light to pass through, reflecting off both the upper and lower surfaces of the layer. This causes a phenomenon called thin-film interference, which produces colors on the surface. As the thickness of this layer increases with temperature, it causes the colors to change from a very light yellow, to brown, then purple, then blue. These colors appear at very precise temperatures, and provide the blacksmith with a very accurate gauge for measuring the temperature. The various colors, their corresponding temperatures, and some of their uses are: Faint-yellow – 176 °C (349 °F) – engravers, razors, scrapers Light-straw – 205 °C (401 °F) – rock drills, reamers, metal-cutting saws Dark-straw – 226 °C (439 °F) – scribers, planer blades Brown – 260 °C (500 °F) – taps, dies, drill bits, hammers, cold chisels Purple – 282 °C (540 °F) – surgical tools, punches, stone carving tools Dark blue – 310 °C (590 °F) – screwdrivers, wrenches Light blue – 337 °C (639 °F) – springs, wood-cutting saws Grey-blue – 371 °C (700 °F) and higher – structural steel Beyond the grey-blue color, the iron oxide loses its transparency, and the temperature can no longer be judged in this way. The layer will also increase in thickness as time passes, which is another reason overheating and immediate cooling is used. Steel in a tempering oven, held at 205 °C (401 °F) for a long time, will begin to turn brown, purple or blue, even though the temperature did not exceed that needed to produce a light-straw color. Oxidizing or carburizing heat sources may also affect the final result. The iron oxide layer, unlike rust, also protects the steel from corrosion through passivation.[12]" Good info for colours and temps. |
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@ 03:22 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerA well written explanation. |
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@ 03:42 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerYay! I picked up three parcels today. The first was the case hardening compound, the second was my barrel, and the third was the stock from Boyds. All I need now is to get my bolt and safety parts.The case hardening compound is very light, ie, has no density to speak of. That 5# tub that they picture (and I bought) is about a 3 gal ice cream pail. I was thinking something along the size of Nathan's tubs. I think I may have enough. A little disappointed with the stock, but what can you expect...you get what you pay for. The inletting will need to be tweaked just to get the correlation between the king screws and the through holes to line up. Maybe then the recoil lug will actually contact the stock. The holes for the pillars are way too small. They barely let the screws through. It's going to be an interesting fit and try exercise. I still have lots of work to do on the action. What's left of the sight ears needs to be ground off and milled. I also have to find something that will work for bases. It's kind of an odd-ball length and the placement of the bases has to work around that big bloody hole and the one screw hole already drilled and tapped. I may have to go with a solid one piece base. My Vari-X lll will not fit, way too short. Looks like this will be purpose built for a 36X, but I'm good with that. |
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@ 08:19 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerIn trying a preliminary fit of metal to wood, I've come across a situation that I don't remember seeing addressed in the forums.Because the stock is a quasi-custom , 95% finish, mass produced whittled down two by four, and the contact surface of the bottom metal is built on three planes and two angles, the fit between the two is sketchy at best. Would it be possible, or advisable, to bed the bottom metal after the action is bedded? Right now, without bedding, if I tighten the rear king screw snug and then start to tighten the front screw, you can watch the bottom metal bend into the stock. I don't think I want to have these kinds of stresses in any of the metal upon final assembly. Or is this a non-issue? |
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@ 04:48 am (GMT) |
Grant LovelockRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawer
Heres Thomas's barrel cut ready for fitting |
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@ 05:00 am (GMT) |
Grant LovelockRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerSome photos of Thomas's Enfeild getting the treatment.....
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@ 06:03 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerWell, Thomas and Grant, it's looking really nice. The fit on your stock is way nicer than mine was. I just finished inletting the stock to suit the action. Pretty well all day. It seemed that every time one adjustment was made it bound up or pressed somewhere else. Back and forth. One of the hardest to find and fit was the area on the rear left where the radius of the action meets the stock. It's a good thing that most of what I ended up gouging out is well hidden. It looks like a rabid beaver had it's way with that piece of walnut. But, it's done now, well almost. Still have to get the barrel threaded and chambered, and then I get to do the front end of the stock. Oh Joy!Thomas, where did you get your trigger? I can't seem to get one out of the states, and finding someone here is turning out to be rather difficult. It is a Timney, isn't it? |
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@ 05:18 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerhi Paul.Grant used a p17 bottom metal that i supplied so i believe he had some fun trying to get everything fitting well. it is indeed a timney i have been trying to find a p17 trigger as the change in bottom metal has meant the p14 trigger is a little short. my local gun shop had an 8 week wait so i ordered one on line through another nz shop, 2 days later i received an email saying they to were out of stock and it'll be a 8 week wait. there might me a shortage at the moment. timney advertise them as enfield sportsman trigger in two variants 5 round mag (p14) and 6 round mag (p17) if that helps any |
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@ 06:14 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: P-14 found in the bottom drawerThanks, Thomas. I had seen those Sportsmen triggers, but was not sure if that's what I wanted. That's good info. There are dealers in Canada, but they all seem to be back-ordered as well. Just keep trying, I guess. |
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