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> New articles, Nathan
New articles, Nathan
@ 12:54 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterHi Guys, just a heads up, the .338's are all done now. Will start making my way into the wider bores as time allows.Also, please note that I have put up an article about copper bullets: http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html This article goes into the dark side of copper bullets. If you wish to share it, please do so via facebook etc. If you wish to submit it to a magazine, do so. there is no copyright on that page- it needs to be shared to increase awareness. I know that many of you have good solid loads with copper bullets but these facts still need to be tabled. Its been on my mind for a long time now. I also get quite a few complaints that I am not hard enough on copper bullets from hunters who have witnessed slow kills- so I hope that the article remedies this. I might flesh it out a bit at a later date. If anyone wants their own warning stories included, email me your story and I will cut and paste it across to the article. |
Replies
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@ 01:04 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: New articles, NathanKeep in mind that I have tried to package it in the simplest of terms for non hunters. |
@ 01:12 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: New articles, NathanWell done NathanI don't use them, In my experience they work OK in high velocity rounds like 300WM . People say they don't do as much meat damage as conventional projectiles, that kind of says it all !!! |
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@ 01:43 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: New articles, NathanThat really does say it all Bob. |
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@ 02:20 am (GMT) |
LaneRe: New articles, NathanGreat article Nathan. I reposted the link (not the article itself) to let my fellow hunters in Texas know about the article and DRT Ammunition. I think that in states where lead bullets are banned, this gives people a choice.I'm not "anti" copper bullets but I think that if the decision is made to use them, it should be an informed decision based upon the game being hunted, the expected ranges, and the calibers used, not because the government dictates that it shall be so. At least now these hunters will have some choice in the matter. |
@ 04:40 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: New articles, Nathananother good article Nathan.i know only one guy that use's barnes in his 270 i think before he started reloading he used 130gr wincherster and i believe he must of had bullet blow up as he had mention having to shoot a few deer a couple of times. i know he briefly tried the 130gr sst's as he gave me most of a box of them. its interesting when i talked to him about 150gr bullets he seemed reluctant to try them sooner or later he might change his mind but he's shooting mainly under 300 yards |
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@ 05:08 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: New articles, NathanCan see why in this instance Thomas. The typical BST (and 130gr SST) is designed for white tail sized game in generally open conditions. A red stag in NZ bush country is more akin to an Elk, in a broad manner of speaking. So a tougher bullet will work better and yes, the Barnes works quite well in the likes of the .270 when driven fast and used at closer ranges. I certainly have no qualms with that. There should be plenty of notes in the KB regarding 130gr bullet limitations, especially the SST.I have seen some very good performance from the TTSX, especially when used right in close. But as I have said, there are limitations that need to be tabled. Yes, it is a pity few people try the 150gr bullet weight in the .270, it does strike the balance. |
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@ 05:51 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: New articles, Nathani agree Nathan he seems to do well with them he has recently gone from the 110gr ttsx to the 129gr lrx but i shutter every times he talks about them being designed for long range.for a similar price i think the partition would be a good choice. its all about having the knowledge to understand the performance of a projectile and the why it works and what situation to use it in. |
@ 08:24 pm (GMT) |
john feyereisnRe: New articles, NathanAn experience with an all copper bullet in a cxp3 150 gr 270 win factory load is why i went looking for a site like this.To add further frustration, i incorrectly thought winchester simply replaced the 150 balistic tip with an equivalent design. Only after hitting the bullet with the knife while cutting a roast did i realize where things went all wrong I wish i had pics from my two experiances with them, my story would go well with your article, but without pics the stories do not cary much proof of what really happened. I am very glad to see that article being written and published. With better understanding the effects of the limitations of these bullets can be understood. |
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@ 11:20 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: New articles, NathanJust another heads up, the .348 Win article is now live.Next on the list is the .357 Magnum. This will take a while as I have a lot of personal notes / data to sift through. |
@ 01:57 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: New articles, Nathanjust read the copper bullet article...interesting stuffnow that .30 cal projectile you recovered....in itself a weird thing with that type...at a guess you were past 200 yards???? velocity down to say 1800fps???? Ive got a .223 pill here that looks very similar pulled out of spiker my son shot at longer range after our mate cocked up shot with 08...son still needed to finish it up close but the barnes anchored it. we have shot a few deer with those 50 grn TTSX now in my vastava powered by 25.1 grns of AR2206h or win 748 and Ive been very impressed with how they kill I sent you photos of young hind I shot at about 150 yards she took 10 steps most of which were back wards and bullet performance was to my eyes similar but opposite to what I would get with 130grn rem coreloct .270 eg worst damage was on nearside shoulder not farside. on deer at bush ranges eg under 50 yards I am happy to use the .223 with Barnes 50 grn as it has speed to open properly and penertrates well....I WOULD NOT try same thing at 200 yard or over...but wouldnt usually try that no matter the projectile this is a lot like the steel shot debate for shotgunning..we started out with shitty velocity and killing was crap once loads got tuned and speed got up past 1400 fps duck went down once hunters LEARNT to get birds in close and hit them right...eg front on and not up the jacksee well now you still hear people bitch and moan but most guys just get on with it no you cant pass shoot swans at 80 yards with steel but you sure as God made little green apples can do it at 40. lets hope these powder centered projectiles are viable at longer range or we will all have to LEARN to be better stalkers as long range SHOOTING wont be viable/ethical if we have to all go all copper. |
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@ 03:22 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: New articles, NathanThe recovered .308 was from moderate range. Thats why it is folded right back.The thing we have to keep in mind, is that there is a whole generation of hunters who are hitting an age where their bodies don't work as well as they once did. Bullets like the ELD-X can allow these guys to reach out from a static position that they may have taken some time to get to. Many people think that shooting at extended ranges is a young persons game, but my experience with clients shows that this is utilized by a wide range of hunters. I also put notes for handicapped shooters in my last book for the same reasons. There are a huge range of cartridges which go around 2400fps to 2700fps as factory loaded. Even the cartridges that are supposed to be fast can suffer weak factory loads. A bullet generally loses 200fps per 100 yards traveled so its easy to see just how this will effect things versus the drop in performance we see with many solid copper bullets below 2400fps, becoming worse still below 2200fps. To compare this with shotguns and steel loads raises an interesting point- a shotgun would not kill so well with just one pellet. With a shotgun, we rely on multiple centers to be hit in lieu of being able to guarantee exact shot placement. I just had a client through here, not one of my custom build type jobs- just a local wanting a check over. All he wanted was for me to give the rifles a quick look over and clean the bores. He is no different to many, just wants to take his off the shelf rifles and off the shelf ammo out hunting. Both rifles were 3" shooters at best without bedding etc, pretty typical stuff. Point being that with human error, chances are that some shots will be poor past 75 yards. He might be a good stalker, but the rifle will let him down one way or another as is. So in this sense, the ammo must be capable of rendering a very wide wound if we are to expect anything in the way of an ethical result. Please understand that when I research and when I write, I have to keep a lot of scenarios in mind. I have to think about many different types of hunters in many countries versus the many different types of animals hunted. I wrote that article so that people would hopefully understand issues which have not been looked into. I also want to make sure people understand options including DRT technology. I know a few people have been caught in the debate- Is copper better than lead? or vice versa. But this is not what the article was about. I have seen both show various strengths and weaknesses. This is like any tool- big hammer versus small hammer, 4x4 truck versus sedan, bread knife versus vegetable knife, horses for courses as the saying goes. What I want to see is choice. Choice for the sake of both the hunter and his quarry. |
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@ 06:30 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: New articles, Nathanyea Mate I do hear you....with ducks...back with lead you COULD get away with longer shots or tail on shots as the individual pellet had the grunt to penetrate,break bone and generally drop ya duck with lighter less ballistic ally efficient steel we need to draw our birds in closer and try to hit them head on so we get those few pellets (my average would be 10-15) into area that does the most damage head/neck/and wing roots similar to big game you cant just shoot em up the jacksee UNLESS you have angle right AND enough penetration etc to reach the vital bits or you end up with runner or a puff of feathers and woundies getting away what I was trying to say is IF we use lighter than lead projectiles/shot we need to think about it a bit more and get in close I really hope we dont HAVE to use copper only projectiles...not only from performance but from cost angle as well ...pest species will get left alone if costs keep rising...I cant see myself shooting wallabies for hang of it if its going to cost over a $ a bang, thats why I bought the .223 and stopped using .270 with bird hunting we do have a choice....plurry expensive choice but its there..heavi shot and the like guys are using very small shot eg #7 -#8 where lead #4-#2 would have been used and taking clean kills out further than normal. NZ retailers are loath to stock it which is a pity,a box or so on hand would solve a few issues and stop the whingeing Ive had guys on who moan steel is no good by asking how much they spent on gas and booze for weekend then use cheapest steel ammo they can find and dont even bother patterning guns...FFS thats borderline insanity you wouldnt go out to shoot goats at 200-300 yards with untried factory loads and rifle with new scope on it without going to range first. we do live in a changing world and the XBox generation want it now me me me me me me me keep up the good fight Mate as said earlier I do hear you. |
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