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> Swede project
Swede project
@ 11:23 pm (GMT) |
GarthHi guys, I'm new to the forum having exchanged an email or 2 with Nathan a while back. This seems the place to be for advice backed up by solid field work. I have been a 2 rifle guy most of my life and meat hunted South Africa for 15 years until recently settling in Australia.I have a 6.5x55 and 338WM. Have been thinking of a third rifle but canned the idea thinking these 2 will cover it all. My question is on barrel lenght for the swede. It's my dedicated stalker with 21" and since I'm no longer looking for a 7mm wizbang of some sort, should I look at 24" to broaden the application? 300m and under is my range but would go another 100 if conditions allow. It's a stainless LH Rem 700 and my intention is to only shoot 140g partitions and SST's on the boss's recommendation. Thanks for the input. |
Replies
@ 01:02 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Swede projectHeck, sorry I missed this post, been so busy with research.Go with 24" garth. You can always dock later. This will suit the various burn rates, especially your local powders if you are still in ZA. |
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@ 02:40 am (GMT) |
Garth WoestRe: Swede projectThanks Nathan, forgot to mention iron sights also , was hoping you would say 22" was going to be ok!.. Might be expensive to shorten later. Will be ossie powder.. Do we have RL22 in NZ/Aus? |
@ 06:19 am (GMT) |
Dale WilhelmRe: Swede projectCan't speak for Australia but all the reloader powders can be difficult to get in NZ. They do get bought in to the country occasionally but usually in small quantities and tend to sell out quickly. Being such a small market getting a steady supply is challenging. This is the main reason I went for ADI in my 6.5 as supply is pretty much guaranteed.As for iron sights at 300m, your eyes must be far better than mine! Happy hunting. Dale |
@ 11:11 am (GMT) |
mark whiteleyRe: Swede projectHi Garthin Australia the reloader powders are a bit scarce at times so when you see it you need to buy up big, I have used RL22 in my swede with some degree of success but found ADI 2209 better in my swede when using 129gr - 140gr projectiles, the 2209 just seemed a bit more consistent in my rifle, I recon RL22 might be a bit slow in a 21" barrel a faster burning powder might be better suited. anyway good luck with it kind regards mark |
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@ 08:52 am (GMT) |
Garth WoestRe: Swede projectThanks guys, 2209 was what I was using in my tikka before selling for a left hand project. Suppose the million dollar Q for me is: if I wanted to hunt effectively with a 140 partition at max 400m, what minimum barrel lenght on my swede will get the velocity I need with a near max load on medium size pigs and deer? Will be very greatful if anyone can answer this for me. |
@ 09:39 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Swede projectok that bit is easyas the Master would say "just skin this cat backwards" you want maximum range of 400 yards my nosler and Nick Harvey manuals give 2700fps (and a bit) from 23'' barrels 2209 is listed at that in the NH manual so we go to back of manual and have a squizz at energy figures etc starting out at 2700 2016fps at 400yards 1263ft-lbs at 400 yards now the beginning figure is 2266ft-lbs so you have half it left. you will have to be on the ball with your aiming zeroed at 200 yards=2'' high at 100 and 8.4 low at 300 and a whopping 24'' or two feet at 400 no issue with rangefinder I guess to put those energy figures into perspective they are more at 400 yards than my favourite .223 load at the muzzle and nearly 3 times as much as I have at 100 yards. |
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@ 09:42 pm (GMT) |
Garth WoestRe: Swede projectYip Mike, figure working backwards and start at the result required might be the way to go. Ever greatful for your reply, it seems Nathan's advice to stick to 24" needs serious consideration... Dale, I was thinking the odd 50m shot needed with iron sights will make it a useful alround stalker, this rifle will have to cover a lot of bases!So Mike, 2850fps do-able with 24" barrel? Or is that stretching it a bit? Don't think I will be taking 400m shots on feral pig to be honest... Just to retract on my position, but deer and goat I think would be fine with proper shot placement, that far would be the exception, under 300m more the norm. |
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@ 07:31 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Swede projecthave another read of the knowledge base.....its all there.... |
@ 09:16 pm (GMT) |
Michael KullmanRe: Swede projectQuote: So Mike, 2850fps do-able with 24" barrel? Or is that stretching it a bit?
Garth - I've been working up some loads using data from this site: http://www.realguns.com/articles/493.htm http://www.realguns.com/loads/655mmswede.htm Quite a bit of 6.5x55 reloading info there. Notice that in the second URL of load data he is getting > 2850fps from a 20.5" barrel CZ550 using 51.5gr IMR7828SSC, CCI250 magnum primers and 140gr Partitions. That is a pretty smoking hot load (his disclaimer is of course that all his loads listed above are ONLY for modern bolt action rifles). I have a stock Howa 1500 in 6.5x55 w/ 22" barrel. Using his load from first link above, 50gr IMR7828SSC and CCI250 primers I am generally averaging a skosh over 2750fps using either Speer HotCor or Nosler Partition 140gr bullets, normally MOA or better out to 300 yards. No high pressure signs in my rifle. Have not tried anything hotter than that as yet. I believe your rifle is based on a Rem 700 action? My guess is that with a 24" barrel you should be able to get pretty close to 2850fps without any major drama. |
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@ 10:32 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Swede projectOK, please understand that 2850fps is the top end for Swedes. Many simply will not handle this regardless of how new the action is. Always budget on 2750fps @ 24". Mike has explained how to do approach this project, skin it backwards, as described in the Cartridges book.At 2850fps, case life can be poor and few rifles will produce optimum accuracy. And yes, there are exceptions but that is what they are, exceptions. Do not budget on this. I have hand loaded many Swede rifles over the years and also the modern re-takes such as the .260 etc. I have worked with barrel lengths of 20 to 29.5". I have tried a range of powders from fast to slow, from Australian, to U.S to European powders. If more power is required, adopt the 6.5-06. The M700 long action certainly has the mag length for this. If you really want to hunt with a short barreled rifle, it can pay to adopt a cartridge that uses mild quantities of fast burning powder such as the .308. Just keep in mind that there was a time when 24" was plenty short, back when we all shot with either SMLE, Springfield or Mauser rifles. Try also to keep in mind that the smaller we go in bore size, the more reliant we become on high velocity to create wide wounding. By the same token, it is important to avoid hot loading for obvious reasons. |
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@ 05:58 am (GMT) |
Garth WoestRe: Swede projectQuote: have another read of the knowledge base.....its all there....
Yip, have read it Mike, but to be honest, I was not being sensible about the facts stated there and maybe trying to turn the swede into something it's not. With your and Nathan's sensible arguments, I think that even at 24", the swede is not the "do it all" at 400m which is what I wanted it to be. I need to put a 3rd rifle in my battery(7mil of sort) that is up to that task and build the swede as a stalking rifle and use it up to medium game and vermin inside 250m and the occasional 300m shot if all the stars align. For that I can go a bit shorter on barrel but ensure an accurate load at sensible speed. Thanks for your input also Michael, even if I got those super hot velocities, there is no guarantee of an accurate load as Nathan says. Not to mention that one might miss pressure signs which is not impossible with these strong actions we have. At the end of the day I only need good hunting accuracy with an all round projectile used within its limitations. |
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