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> Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying Tactics
Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying Tactics
@ 01:50 pm (GMT) |
Ricardo LaborinTo any and all Sendero owners out there....1) Have you encountered weight/size problems while hiking? 2) Is the gun true to spec at 8.5lbs?' 3) Aside from getting physically stronger, any carrying tactics?? 4) I have a Rem 700 VSSF II "Little Sendero" in .22-250 - aside from action length, is it wise to use it as a proxy? Saludos from Mexico. Ricardo. |
Replies
@ 03:11 am (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsI have had several Senderos in 300 Win Mag as well as 7mm Rem Mag and really liked them. I had those until their barrels began to loase accuracy then sold them instead of rebarrelling. I found my moose and elk hunts were in no need of the long barrels and the weight, so first went to a m70 30/06 which was a shooter...to the point someone wanted to buy it and offered too much money so it got sold too. I regreted that for years. It was 9 3.4 pounds with the scope but the weight like with the Senderos were what made it very comfortable to shoot. After that my elk rifle was a 7mm Rm Mag in a Husqvarna with a 3.5010x Leupols scope. That was 8 pounds and was not as nice to shoot but it really performed well. Recently that barrel gave up the ghost and I had it rebarrelled with a Benchmark 5R barrel in a SAAMI spec chambered 7mm Rem Mag and put it into a Bell & Carlson stock with the action area cut to fit then pillar bedded and bedded the entire action. It shoots bughole groups and velocities are right up where I want them. It is 8 pounds with sling and add the scope for another 20.8 ounces plus a leather buttstock cheek riser for another 6 ounces. I have been out packing it around with its 25 inch barrel and it is well balanced and comfortable to carry, not unlilke the Senderos. Recently yo better test its accuracy I put on my Nightforce ATACR scope which feels like around 2 pounds of a bit more and it did not seem to me to be any issue for position shooting or carrying it, and the extra weight with hot loads of 175 grain ELD-X rounds was a good feel to shooting it. I went back to a lighter scope for hunting and carrying it however.I have been in agreement with Nathan on staying away from the really light weight rifles even though their recoil is no issue to me, but I also like to shoot them a lot and prefer a rifle with an overall weight around 9 to 10 pounds, and am quite prepared to suffer the weight when a monster elk is standing there yelling at me after packing the rifle for the better part of a day. That being said I am guilty of using a 6 pound total rifle on a recent hunt backpacking these 73 year old bones into the mountains for ten days, but I consider that different. Back when I had my horses my rifles where never light but they were doing the packing back then. |
@ 07:08 am (GMT) |
Phil Van ZuylenRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsBryan, an excellent reply! I will let the fellas with more money than I buy the 3k Forbes and Kimber lightweights and pick up an older heavier old sporter to play with cheaply.Can't say I've seen them 2 full days walk in they seem to have the $$$ to fly everywhere |
@ 09:41 am (GMT) |
Dan KeeneRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsHi Ricardo, Guys.I just took a Sendero off the shelf and weighed it. No scope or bases, as supplied by Remington, including price tag it is 4.006kg in 7mm RM. Thats 8.82lb. I guess a 300 might be lighter because of the bigger hole in the barrel ;0) I like the confidence that shooting a heavy rifle affords. The extra pound or two is a very small price to pay I think. Cheers,Dan. |
@ 10:51 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsHi Ricardo. The all up weights of both your rifle and the Sendero are around 11.5lb. Any differences are more due to how the stock feels from a subjective point of view. Yours has a slimmer pistol grip and forend so you do get a slightly different feel. But they are otherwise much the same.As Dan says, the hole diameter in the bore does change things up a bit. You have the shorter action but with a heavier barrel. Both have the same OD but yours has no flutes and a smaller bore. So you can get some idea of the weight from your current rifle. Certainly some very good advice in Bryan's post. Our age must always be taken into account. And now for the rant... I find it sad that there is now a younger generation that find the Tikka T3 Lite to be as heavy as they believe they are able to carry. They are too scared to bed these rifles in case it increases the weight, even slightly- this based on the emails I receive as to "will bedding make my rifle too heavy". How the hell would I know if its too heavy for you? Perhaps send me a picture of your upper arms next to a picture of an axolotl so I can make bicep comparisons. Heck, I don't know. As one famous bald headed Texan once said- "you can either fish or cut bait. I have to be careful myself. To write books, I have to sit down and type for months at a time which potentially weakens my body versus traditionally intensive daily labor. To counteract this loss of condition when writing, I have realized that I now have to increase my exercise from basic cardio to weights and I need to squash my exercise into 1 hour stints in the morning or evening or both. My arms (my everything) are aching as I type this. On the other hand, we have ridiculously heavy rifles that cannot comfortably be carried anywhere with their Lego chassis. There seems to be no balance, no common sense among a proportion of people now (whether manufacturers or end users). This is possibly due to folk spending too much time looking at social media and not enough time using their bodies. We each have our limits. But how do we know what is heavy and what is light- based on what? Much of this subject reminds me of the book you sent me Ricardo- Mastery, by Robert Greene. I agree completely with Greene's intensive research, the opposite of the book- The 4 hour work week. This would see me trying to pilfer off you guys and give the minimum in return. It was nice to read Greene's take on the rewards of effort in any endeavor. I still think one of the best configurations for carry weight magnum is the basic SPS rifle fitted to an aftermarket stock such as the soon to be released Precision Platforms stock. This configuration is similar to the magnum rifle pictured between the accurizing section and maintenance section of the Accurizing book. But I am of course speaking from my own perspective. What suits me may not suit another. I have much more I want to write about on this subject (based on incoming emails of late) but I think I will leave it for a mailed blog post. That way I will have something that is hopefully useful and inspirational to add to your inbox, not simply more rubbish for you to delete. |
@ 12:26 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsRicardo you must be chasing field L/R capabilities & usability so this is from that view and role.I use 2 Rem Police S/A & L/A which l'm sure are heavier again (no fluting), both bedded, one modified stock shape (heavier again) and wearing SIII x50mm type optics & sometimes a Harris Bipod. Shoulder or cradle carry when possible as these are nose heavy and l only stalk short distances using a "ready hold". I absolutely hate these light weight rifles that plague the gun shop walls and cannot stress that enough & yes l've owned and used some damn accurate T3's for example. If you have been climbing or packing the last thing needed is a light weight, heavy recoiling rig that takes %100 concentration & technique to shoot accurately. Heart rate is up as may be the adrenaline when that prize "whatever" is standing across the valley. |
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@ 03:12 pm (GMT) |
Ricardo LaborinRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsTHIS is what happens when one trusts questions to folks like you. We start at a base level layman situation, and end up with deep philosophy of life material.I'm not in the cock-sucking business (although I hear it's booming), but there's no one in my awareness space with more experience in shooting, tinkering with and generally caressing rifles than some of you here, and of course Don NF at the helm. These opinions have to be put out there, even if its a rant or a lecture here and there. Aside from being entertaining and a source of knowledge, the Book Series plus this Forum has taught me some things about guns, but more things about asking the right questions and looking at life through different angles. The plain vanilla question of "Why?" asked multiple times almost always uncovers misalignment and false perceptions. Why does my .300 WSM weigh the same as my .22? (No wonder I was getting pounded) Why do the knowledgeable folk use the same cartridges over and over? (Because they work) Why do we put the humane killing of game animals as our priority? (because we would be the animals if we did not do so). Why have we become so fcking soft as a species? (We praise the false gods of comfort) Asking these types of "odd angle" questions, uncovering the answers and acting upon the findings has made my life much better. I hope we all benefit from this as well... Saludos from Mexico, RLS. Ps: Jury still out on a Sendero 7mmRM or a Nesika .30-06, will let you know soon. |
@ 03:25 pm (GMT) |
jasonRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsI used to think my sendero was fairly heavy. Not too heavy, just of weight you might say.It didn't worry me, I just thought, yes there's some weight there. Iv not long finished a custom rifle same stock, custom single shot action and a 25mm stainless barrel. Now that sendero is a light weight, After using the custom. I wouldn't want my 7mag sendero any lighter. The next barrel I definitely won't care if it doesn't have flutes. And I don't need a muzzle device. A bit silly having a light tikka type rifle then trying to calm it down or add something on the muzzle to help. As far as Nathan saying some guys are scared to bed because of weight... I just got a bedding kit, I felt a little weight to the whole stabilizing and bedding kit in the box. It was kind of in the corner. Not too much but some weight. I open the box.... And it's the plastercine. Haha. Take that away and it's nothing. So to answer your question, your question is a good excuse to build a true heavy weight rifle, then get a sendero and you will think nothing of it. |
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@ 04:15 am (GMT) |
Ricardo LaborinRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsWell, there's two ways to go about it. Get in shape or carry a light gun IN A LIGHT CALIBER. Not the 8-pound .300 Winny.Although NF's bicycle carrying technique is not bad at all, this is what I'm finding marvelous to getting in peak hunting shape: 1) Grab your regular hunting pack 2) Place a 24kg kettlebell inside 3) Get out and on it.... 
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@ 09:32 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsNice Ricardo, should keep you fit! |
@ 10:01 am (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsI'm with you Ricardo. I would prefer to increase my ability rather than find ways to shave weight off the rifle. Not that there is anything wrong with but the full bedding and stock stabiliser add less than a pound or around 400g to the overall weight. My Howa comes in at around 4.9kg or 10 pound and 13 ounces. I get the feeling it may be heavier but my scales aren't that accurate.I personally really like your idea of moving about with extra weight. My added incentive is that I want to join the military. As a chaplain but you still need to pass basic fitness tests. I want to train and work with the units I am assigned to so having a high degree of fitness is important to me. I am not at the level I'd like to be but I want to get there. |
@ 06:50 am (GMT) |
Luke LahdenrantaRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsIf we are waxing philosophic about rifle weights, I would point out that this modern trend to lighter weight rifles isn't really that new. Even at the beginning of our modern smokeless Era circa 1900-1910, a time when men were men and women were darn glad for it, the 6.5ish lb featherweight Winchester M1894 and the Mannlicher Shoenauer 1903 were selling like hotcakes. That recipe of a rifle about a yard/meter long and about 6.5-7lb or 3 kg or so, with a cartridge of moderate power and recoil seems to be a winner in whatever time and place. I think if anything, our modern rifle designers have forgotten nearly completely the concept of balance and proportion, not to mention aesthetics and beauty. But then again so have most of us consumers. We are happy with whatever poorly designed plastic crap we are offered, just so long as we can get it on sale and think we're getting a bargain. If a rifle like the M-S 1903 was offered today it would probably be a sales failure, not to mention prohibitively expensive.And as an aside about exercise and fitness versus hard physical labour, as someone who spent a decade as an underground miner in very hard physical labour I will say that I have never found any exercise regime that can replicate that. Sure I can and have improved my cardio and general fitness with exercise since leaving the mines but it just isn't the same and could never be, as working 8,10 or 12 hour days in hard physical labour. There is something about that kind of work that I always found very good for the soul, get filthy and dirty on the outside but you get washed up and then a good night's sleep, worn out from the days labour. |
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@ 09:17 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsFair enough, light weight carbines were popular here too during the BP era, due to the thick rain forest terrain. However these were as you said Luke, mild chamberings and the expectations (range versus open sights) were different. Horses for courses as the saying goes.Here is a photo of forum member Thomas Kitchen. Just kidding Thomas. Its from Peter Maxwell's brilliantly written book - Frontier. 
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@ 06:25 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying Tacticsi was in hysterics when i saw that, it made my day.sent a picture of it to the wife and she couldn't stop laughing either. funny how not much changes in ways i prefer ashley's with drain holes, swazi stubbies and tights for river crossings and a 35/303 for heavy bush. Luke there is plenty of fails like the 350 rem mag because of the high recoil and noise from a carbine. here in nz we have plenty of people running what is best described is silly light weight short rifles and they only get away with it because of suppressors. its kinder like creating a problem just to solve it |
@ 06:54 pm (GMT) |
Francis SaundersRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsLove the rant Nathan.......how long have you been holding that one in!Had me laughing me socks off and wetting the bed all in one. |
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@ 05:55 am (GMT) |
Luke LahdenrantaRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsThat certainly is an interesting outfit that man is wearing, I trust the tassels are especially... practical for NZ conditions :)What is that Terry Rifle, is that a cut down Lee Enfield? Looks like a neat little carbine. I had a Jungle carbine years ago, great little rifle in concept if not quite in execution. My example had the infamous 'wandering zero' and whoever designed that butt plate needs a smack upside the head. Now that I think a bit more about it typing this post, I do miss having an LE around. A commonwealth hunting rifle battery isn't quite complete without one. |
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@ 01:02 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Sendero Weight vs. "Feel" and Carrying TacticsAny Kiwi who has spent a great deal of time in the bush will understand and appreciate the attire of our 1860's man.Further to this, the basic Robin Hood men in tights thing is ideal for our bush as we often have to cross thigh or waste deep rivers many times over in a day and in freezing temps, so you need to be able to dry off quick. Not getting wet simply isn't an option. A Roman tunic would be the ultimate but nobody would wear it as it seems too feminine these days (the same cannot be said of rifles). But hard core hunters will know what I mean regarding wet chaffing crotches if wearing underwear, polyprops and shorts. Would be good to ditch the shorts and just wear 'tights and a dress'. The Terry and Calisher was a breech loader, percussion cap, paper cartridge, 537". Trajectory about the same as a .22LR with subs like everything else then. I cannot now recall whether these were available in .577 in NZ. In NZ, the wood of the Enfield was cut down, not the barrel unless we are talking long toms or pig guns. These aside, the barrels were generally left at 25.4". The brass butt plate (tent peg hammer) was the norm, I (we) never knew any different back then, especially as 12-13 year old kids, it was simply the rifle we were given to shoot by our fathers. We were told to hold it tight and so we did. In hindsight, this was possibly a great tool for learning technique. What I do remember is that the butt plate was important as this is where the pre-oiled pull through was stored, to be used at the end of each day after shooting corrosive ammo. For many of us, it was only later that we realized how a nice a soft rubber pad was to use, particularly the vented Bisley pad as it became more common as a retrofit. Do any of you remember the sound of that gauze patch going down the bore? My oh my, must have removed a thou each pass. And folk worry about my methods. |
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