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Superformance powder
@ 10:20 pm (GMT) |
dennis phillipsHi Guys, Winchester Australia has finally got Superformance powder advertised as available in Sydney. Has anyone got load dater suggestions for 3006 and 300 wm. Everything I can fined says this powder is good for what looks like a small range of specific cartridges and gives a short list of non helpful options even though it seems most popular cartridges are factory loaded with this powder. looking at 180 and 200 / 208 gr bullets. I am going to hunt the Roar for Red Deer 2018 followed by a fly in Sambar hunt on the following August with my Son. I'm thinking on the Sambar hunt I will use the 300 for any ridge to ridge shots in the 200 - 250 m max range that might present themselves and push my Son up front with the 3006 for everything 200 and under. My 300 is a Winchester Extreme Weather and I'm leaning toward the ELDX for both Red and Samba. My 3006 is a Montana Rifle Company XWR and I'm leaning toward the 208 gr ELDM for Red and 200 gr Nosler Partition for Sambar, what do yourecon is the go?. |
Replies
@ 05:08 am (GMT) |
Michael LangRe: Superformance powderHi Dennis, Superformance factory ammo IS NOT loaded with hodgdon Superformance powder. The factory ammo is loaded with custom blended powders tailored for each specific caliber and load.Hodgdon's Superformance powder is completely different from normal powders. It doesn't have a fixed burn rate. It has what is called a progressive burn rate and that means that it burns at different speeds at different pressures. That is why it doesn't work in all cartridges, but where it does work it works well. It would be best to say with published loads because as of yet, those are the ones they have tested and showed an increase in performance over other powders. I have a load worked up for my 22-250 with superformance powder and the 60gr partition. Best I can recall it was mild load, about halfway between book start and book max, where I got good accuracy of about half moa out of a factory savage axis. I did try hotter loads and never got any signs of pressure, but accuracy got worse. Good luck, Michael |
@ 07:42 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Superformance powderHI DennisThink of superformance as 2213sc with less bulk density, to get best performance you need a cartridge that runs out of room with 2213sc. The 30.06 with 208grain is one such combination it works well in, start with low to mid 2213sc data. Be aware that it is a ball powder so it's more sensitive to temperature then your standard adi powders. It's no good in your win mag as 2213sc is on the quicker side for the win mag. Nathan if you read this can you confirm start load? Also any thoughts on superformance with 225grain eldm in a 308? |
@ 09:27 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Superformance powderHi Dennis and Thomas, thanks for your input Thomas, that is all correct.Yes for the .30-06 and no, not ideal for the Win Mag. I cannot safely advise on mid or max .30-06 data as there is so much to go wrong regarding case (brand) capacity, primer type, throat length, neck tension and scale errors. But as you say Thomas, 2213sc data works for SF in the .30-06 as I wrote in Cartridges Second Edition, using the 220 grain data for 195, 200, 208, 212 and 220 grain bullets. Sweet spots for the 208gr can run from 2600 to 2750fps, a truly outstanding combo. Suggest Win, Lapua or Hornady brass. A standard primer is OK but do consider a magnum for cold highly changeable environments with this type of powder. ADI Data (again, I cannot condone this): 220gr / AR2213SC (H4831sc) Start 54.0. Max 57.5C. Thomas, the burn rate is still too slow for the .308 / 225gr. Better to experiment with Leverevolution which is closer to 2208 through 2209 (Varget through to 4350). Fortunately, its is not so easy to 'blow up' either the .308 or .30-06 as we go slightly slower in burn rate. Its when we accidentally go the other way that things can become somewhat dire (e.g 2206h / H4895 in the .30-06). As for your bullet choices Dennis, you are on the right track by keeping the weights up. Much will depend on ranges and game weights with regards to how much controlled expansion you need. The closer the shots and larger the animals, the more you need to consider a premium- or failing this, an increase in bullet weight. If you wish to use the Hornady bullets in the Win Mag on Sambar, do consider the 220 to 225gr weights. The 220gr bullet will fit your magazine best while the 225gr will have to be jumped by a few mil. Note also that the .30-06 loaded to 2700fps with the 200gr ELD-X or 208gr M will produce a good deal of recoil. So you will need to make sure that your son is able to cope with such a load. If ranges are indeed inside 300 yards, there is actually no need to load past 2400fps. Even with its heavy jacket, the X works well from this muzzle velocity when used on larger bodied medium game. The thinner jacketed M works exceptionally well on a very wide range of animals from mild muzzle velocities. So do take recoil issues into account and load accordingly. |
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@ 02:31 am (GMT) |
dennis phillipsRe: Superformance powderHi guys, thanks for the information. 2600 - 2700 with 200 gr bullets in the 3006 sounds pretty flash. We have plenty of Hornady Bass. Hornady factory ammo with interlocks are very accurate in both our 300 and 3006 and have worked well on the Does and Hinds we'v shot so far so we stick with the brand. I've been accumulating all the relevant and or interesting components projectiles etc for the big hunts in our plan as supply is pretty unreliable here in Sydney, including a big ass stack of second hand loading equipment. I will add the 220 grainers to the list for my 300 and the Superformance powder for the 3006. I haven't actually started loading quite yet but my Gun Smith is a really cool Guy and has very kindly offered to help me sort out all my loading gear in the next couple of weeks and coach me to tailor up the loads I want for our rifles. My 300 couldn't shoot better than inch and a half when I got it but after he tricked it up I get groups .3 - .45 with Hornady white tail 180 gr ammo. Looks like lots of fun between now and March / August. Recoil won't be a problem, my Son actually learned to shoot on the 3006 and with the straight stock it actually kicks notably less than my 308 Weatherby Vanguard. Thanks again Nathan for that bit of info. |
@ 12:03 pm (GMT) |
Happy hunterRe: Superformance powderQuote: HI Dennis
Think of superformance as 2213sc with less bulk density, to get best performance you need a cartridge that runs out of room with 2213sc. The 30.06 with 208grain is one such combination it works well in, start with low to mid 2213sc data. Be aware that it is a ball powder so it's more sensitive to temperature then your standard adi powders. It's no good in your win mag as 2213sc is on the quicker side for the win mag. Nathan if you read this can you confirm start load? Also any thoughts on superformance with 225grain eldm in a 308? Not that I'm calling BS to your comment about 2213sc is no good for win mag good for 30-06 but I have load development tested and used both on paper and in the field with Adi powders across the range (2208, 2209, 2207, 2217, 2225, 2213sc and RL22 alliance same as 2213sc) for 308, 30-06 and 300 win mag. I my experience 300 win mag 208gr 2213sc produces the best by far with cloverleaf 5 shot groups at 100m, easily moa and sub moa at all ranges tested out to 600. Too slow for 30-06, load using 2208 for both 308 and 30-06 165gr bullets. Whilst the groups for 30-06 isn't as tight they are still moa at all ranges and 10 inch plate at 600. An old parkhale hunting rifle not bedded but shoots good enough as a bush gun but has confirmed kills out to 450. 308 was at the range the other day it can cloverleaf at 100 but not consistently but definitely a sub moa combination has confirmed kills out to 635 TBR. shooting down hill at about 800. rem 700 police special. too heavy for the bush though. I have 2 rem 700 specials in 308. Whilst one is in MDT tac-21 the other in precision stock. Surprisingly they both shoot as good as each other with the same load. The MDT shoots more precision ie clover leaf groups, ( as expected being in a chassis) where the other will struggle to get below .85 but still a great rifle and performs well at all ranges. Just thought I'd add my 10c worth, I ready allot of theory and science bases comments on forums and struggle to get the answers I'm looking for where as my comment are from real results both with food on the table and results from the range. One thing you must remember every rifle is different, age, condition, bedding harmonics etc and all have a sweat spot for reloading accuracy. If you buy quality you will get consistency. There is no substitute for getting out there and doing it. Your theories will quickly be debunked doing this. Every shooter is different and beyond marksmanship principles tech can change from one shooter to another. What works for one won't necessarily work for the other. Keep and open mind spend time on the range as this is the only way you will get consistent and prove your theory. Small changes can have big results, any changes to your reloading techniques, firing position etc will change everything so be consistent. I've ranted enough hot barrels and most of all have fun :) |
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@ 10:28 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Superformance powderHi Happy Hunter, no worries, you were correct to question the above. Will break it down a bit.SF burn rate is closer to 2217 than 2213sc but for load data, its best to use 2213sc data mid points where no other info is available for a given cartridge. SF goes very well in the .30-06. It also goes well in the .300 WM but the BD is higher than 2213sc and 2217 (H4831sc and H1000), so it tends to produce a higher SD. The loss in SD can override any other potential gains. This is what I meant by not ideal. Sorry, I should have qualified this. Furthermore, there is a possibility that SF may produce acceptable SD's, so there is room for experimentation here. SF is too slow for the .308. Hornady use a unique blend for this. If you try it, velocities will most likely be below 2000fps with a 225gr. The .30-06 loaded with a 208gr and 2213sc powder, maxes out at around 2500fps in a 24 to 26" barrel. SF maxes out at about 2750fps to 2800fps. I cannot speak for others. These notes are based on my own observations. |
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