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> Hybrid 100V powder and the .257
Hybrid 100V powder and the .257
@ 06:43 am (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonI have noticed on the Hodgdon reloading site that Hybrid 100V seems to give the .257 Roberts velocities I expect for the .25-06. I am curious what other folks experience has been with this powder.My experience: I have just recently tried it in my .25 Souper Improved (same case capacity as the .257. Lambert was working on it when he died.). I quit at just over 2100 f/s with the 100 grain projectile, because the next two increments saw the groups opening up significantly. |
Replies
@ 06:13 pm (GMT) |
Riki WaughRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257hi as you can see i,m a 25 souper fan, have just had mine made and still work in progress but is that vel correct? |
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@ 07:15 am (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257I am fairly new to the chronograph, but that was the velocity I got. I will have to check it again.I teach at the Physics Department at BYU-Idaho, and we just got a LabRadar for the acoustics group. Gotta try the new toy. I used the Hodgon data for the .257, because the water capacity of the case was the same. I was surprised to see advertised, (and and apparently delivered) velocities similar to the .25-06. That was why the post. That, and to see if there were any quirks I might need to watch. It is my first experience with that technology powder that I know. |
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@ 09:26 am (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257My Souper Improved is probably a bit like an Ackley Improved Souper. It has a caliber length neck and about a 28degree shoulder. So it has a little extra capacity which happens to match the .257 Roberts. |
@ 09:35 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Hi there, just wondering if you could please confirm - was the velocity you were getting 2100fps or 3100fps.As for online data, you need to keep in mind that most of this data is just a computer generated estimate. Any errors in the input values lead to large output errors and it is not uncommon to see data change year to year as manufacturers make corrections. The Hodgdon quote of 3200fps with a 100gr bullet over 48gr Hybrid does appear optimistic for the Roberts case. Unfortunately I have not tested this to confirm. The burn rate for Hybrid is halfway between 4350 and 4831. I am sure many readers have tried both in similar sized cartridges (including 6.5 family) and will know the drill here - no miracles. You will soon have your own data to prove this out one way or another. Just so long as you take your time to study cases, primers and primer pockets, you should be able to avoid your own big bang experiment. My reloading book has step by steps for working up to full charges for the individual rifle. ################################################ Slightly off topic (this has nothing to do with your immediate questions Mr Nielson and is not directed at you). I would like to talk to all .25 fans about the subject of chasing velocity in the .257 bore. To be sure, the faster you push a .25, the more fun there is to be had. In plain terms, these small bores produce fast and spectacular killing when coupled with high velocity. I have done it and if you have done we should be on the same page here. Unfortunately, there are limits to how far we can chase this velocity and some cases will (obviously) not give the velocities we want. But still we chase velocity (see my own younger man folly in the book series). I am a big believer in getting the best result from each case and I do chase velocity- I love it and in the reloading book I encourage folk to get the very best out of the individual rifle. But I also know when to quit, I know when I have hit the wall and again these aspects are taught in the reloading book. Lets say you have a .25-06. These days in New Zealand, this would just as likely be mongrelized by one of our franchise operators and eager for a buck chop shops, resulting in a 20" barrel with a muffler attached to it giving the illusion that the rifle is now quiet (but making no difference down range). Off we go to the range, bipod on the rifle, looking like a poster boy for the Autumn catalogue decked out in real tree and plastic. Now lets say this rifle yields 3100fps with a 100gr bullet and H4831sc (ADI 2213sc) powder. At 3200fps, groups really open up. Do you really think a change in powder is going to make that big of a difference? How much of a difference do you really think experimentation will make. An expectation of 50fps may be reasonable, 100fps may be pushing it while 200fps is just a fantasy. We take a .25 Souper that normally yields 3000fps. We improve the case, we get 50fps. We experiment with powders, we get to 3100fps. We have a tight bore, we are back down to 3050fps, we have a loose bore, we are up to 3150fps. As for 3200fps, we may need a highly evolved powder to achieve this. We continue to experiment as we seem born to do and yes there are continuing advances in powder designs which are worth experimenting with. But we also need to know when to quit. To all .25 velocity chasers, I would ask that if you want top velocities beyond what you are seeing after basic experiments, increase your case capacity. Go get yourself a Weatherby Magnum or .264 Win Mag which is literally a cats whisker difference in bore diameter. Time and again I see guys limit themselves out of an imagined yet highly distorted vision of a mild cartridge equating to a modest man. There are certainly some loud mouth louts toting magnums that they cannot handle but you do not have to be that guy. In many instances we are only kidding ourselves when we try to break 3000fps with a cartridge that only wants to do 2700fps (in my case, trying to break 3400fps with a cartridge that wanted to do 3200fps). If you want the velocity, go for it, but get the case you really need in order to achieve this. No decision has to be permanent. We are only here on this planet a short while so do what you love and love what you do. "But I cannot afford another rifle or to pay for the upkeep of a magnum". Well then, on you go but do me a favor and keep a tab on how much it cost you over the year (or years) in powder and projectile experiments trying to chase that last 100fps. All because you would not listen to what your instincts were already telling you. Or the other argument - "I don't want the recoil of magnum". Ok sure, then you just keep chasing magnum velocities in the smaller case, makes perfect sense. |
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@ 02:45 pm (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Nathan, Thanks for calling me on that velocity. It was a tad over 3100f/s.I hadn't intended to be the poster child for verifying everything you hear against published data. Well, we can't waste a teaching moment. Your comment about pushing limits is what really started my question. This powder in the .257 Roberts looked like it was too good to be true. As a result I was questioning it, even though my experience seemed to back it up. Too often there is a "gotcha." While I wouldn't mind extending the utility of a favorite rifle, I don't need to borrow troubles. We all have this tendency to interpret what we see to agree with our expectations, so a second set of eyes or experiences is all to the good. |
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@ 09:14 am (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257The gotcha I am most concerned about with this powder is temperature sensitivity. Has any one had good or bad experiences with this powder in that regard?Around here we typically develop loads in nicer weather, and hunt when it is colder. |
@ 03:07 am (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Some posts in the Nosler forum say it is temperature sensitive.I would hold off loading for warn weather and when it arrives load some at various levels, watch velocities and pressure before decising on a safe load for the warmer weather. Personally I would go directly to a known Temperature Insensitive powder for warmer weather and develope a load for that. |
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@ 05:01 am (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Thanks Bryan. We just have to pay the piper one way or another, it seems.I prefer to load below the max from the manuals. With this powder the Hodgdon website suggests 150 f/s faster than the next powder. That is about like getting a new rifle, next rank up. With that I was hoping I might match the top velocity of the other powders in the .257 Roberts with something more forgiving -below the max- on this powder. After some experience with those loads, in a pinch I might be able to extend my favorite rifle almost into .25-06 territory. From what you are saying, that means I will have to lose some velocity, or label boxes of shells for their acceptable temperatures. |
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@ 05:36 am (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Nothing wrong persuing your loads for that powder. I meant to say the simple route would be a different temp insensitive powder might be more straightforward.If temps go high, a lower load may still give you better velocity with your powder, which is my reason for saying to wait until those temps are happening then do a load workup for the temps you need it for. I mentioned watching the velocities as you do this since it may be the easy way to find your accuracy node that you found with the load you are currently using. You could then work back and forth on loads of smaller increment/decrements to find the performance you want to see. All this while paying close attention to signs of excessive pressure. As Nathan mentioned, it is not always best to persue high velocity in your loads but more important to obtain the better precision. |
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@ 03:33 am (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Bryan,The idea of matching velocities with a chronograph to develop a load for the new temperature sounds like just the ticket. Watching for pressure signs is indeed an important given, even when working within published data. Accuracy is my preferred goal. I have been fortunate with this rifle that even a wild group is something like an inch and a half at 100yards, even with awkward wind. But it is so much more satisfying to sink them into 3/4" or less. |
@ 07:22 am (GMT) |
Shawn BevinsRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257I can get 3100 f/s with 100 gr projectiles with 47gr of H4350. Is it accurate? No. Still working with various bullets. I have a rifle with a long throat that I tend to push the loads. I plan on getting it made into an AI for a future project. I have not tried 100V but I will keep it in mind when it comes time to work up loads. Looking forward to your results. please post what bullet you are using. |
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@ 05:15 pm (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Shawn,I have been shooting some old Speer Hollow point 100 grains I had on hand. Been thinking of trying some Nosler Partitions next. I too have a long throat in my rifle, and a slower twist 1:12 twist. - a little more appropriate for lighter weight bullets, but seems to shoot 117-120 OK. |
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@ 05:15 pm (GMT) |
J. Ryan NielsonRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257Shawn,I have been shooting some old Speer Hollow point 100 grains I had on hand. Been thinking of trying some Nosler Partitions next. I too have a long throat in my rifle, and a slower twist 1:12 twist. - a little more appropriate for lighter weight bullets, but seems to shoot 117-120 OK. |
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@ 01:08 pm (GMT) |
Shawn BevinsRe: Hybrid 100V powder and the .257I have all 1-10 twists. Nosler makes the Partition in 100gr, 115gr and 120gr. I use the 115 gr Partition on deer out to 300 yds with good effect. Just purchased a 1lb of H100V powder to research it a little. |
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