|
|
|
Discussion Forums
Forum Index
> Rifles general discussion
> Learning.
Learning.
@ 11:49 am (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayWell I had a disappointing result yesterday. One of those where your efforts have not given the results you were hoping.I chronographed my load and it had an ES of 73fps. 2760 2727 2747 2763 2711 2725 2690 2721 Now the story could end there... but there is an opportunity for further exploration! After speaking with Nathan there are a few variable I will try. Neck tension. Lowering the charge. And powder type. I so desperately want to keep the velocity high but it may not be a reality If I want to reign in the ES. I recently shot a 0.75 MOA group off the pack in field conditions which is great but a range of 73fps ES isn't suitable for long range shots. I will keep it posted but I'd love to know what you guys have done to dial things in and what it took. |
Replies
@ 03:57 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Learning.Lee crimping dies are what did it for me, and a lot of luck. Also, trying to pay attention to training muscle memory on how hard you press your dies. It's a culmination of everything we try to do, and I think that once in a blue moon, we (I) remember to do it all. Keep at it, it will come and you'll have that cheshire grin. |
|
@ 06:53 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: Learning.Cheers Paul.I appreciate the feedback. I think it is important to talk about shortcomings as much as successes. |
@ 07:50 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: Learning.I think Paul’s way of looking at the situation is good, very constructive for sure.I still have yet get my own reloading equipment together, so take this with a few grains of salt, but it does appear to me that the Lee Factory Crimp die is a very crucial part of many different cartridges. It’s the same way that many Olin/Winchester rounds are crimped, and neck sizing or full length should do an adequate job of resetting the dimensions of the case mouth. The Lee die looks to me like a very good and uncomplicated way to obtain consistent neck tension, especially for bullets that don’t have a cannelure. —- On success vs. failure; In science, it’s mostly agreed upon that it is 100% possible to know when you’re wrong. When something just can’t be true. In fact its always possible to say, “I know this is not true,” but it’s actually never possible to say, “I know this is absolutely right.” This is why it’s extremely important to discuss failures in general, and why there is no shame or embarrassment at all in discussion of failed attempts at some kind of outcome. Failures can often teach us more than successes. I only became interested in martial arts (Western boxing and Amateur Freestyle Wrestling) after I lost my first full-on physical fight. Because I suddenly knew I needed to know more, or I’d continue to lose. |
@ 09:58 pm (GMT) |
IainRe: Learning.G'day Andrew.Not sure if you have considered this, but your chrono will have some degree of error. How much error will depend on brand and setup. It doesn't need much of an error to bugger up ES and SD calculations. |
|
@ 11:06 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: Learning.Hi Iain,It was a Magnetospeed Sporter. Barrel mounted bayonet type job. It is my understanding that they are fairly good units. Not affect by sun or cloud and gives a correct MV without needing to factor distance from chronograph to give values at the bore. That said I would be most happy to test in different conditions. It was warmer than usual but only 31 degrees |
|
@ 11:27 pm (GMT) |
IainRe: Learning.That's my understanding of the Magneto speed also Andrew, which is why I am planning to upgrade from my ancient Shooting Chrony to a M/s.Ah well - at least that's one possibility crossed off your list. |
@ 08:03 am (GMT) |
Tom DixonRe: Learning.One thought on the lee crimp dies, I have my press mounted on a plywood stand so that I can use it on the kitchen table, (no dedicated reloading space yet). This means that the handle on the press can only be lowered to the point where it hits the table top. This gives me a consistent point that I can reach each time. lee recommends that you don’t allow the press to cam over as that will damage the die, however I set it up so that it almost cams over just as the handle hits the table top. This gives me a very consistent crimp, it should be possible to rig some thing up that stops the handle on your press at a set point giving the same crimp each time. |
|
@ 11:24 am (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: Learning.I am like you Tom, my press is mounted on a block which is clamped to my bench in case it ever needs moving.What I liked about the kit was the Lee press handle is quite customisable. When I got it, the handLe was in an awkward position. I changed its length and angle to better suit me, especially for neck sizing. Also Ryan, I have learnt quite a lot from the wisdom that collects here! I quite like that statement at the end there. |
|
@ 12:40 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Learning.Well, Andrew, reality hit hard today. That wonderful load that had such great numbers was a fluke at best. What I thought was ammo loaded to the same specs was like it came from Wallly World. The group opened to the high .7s (for 10 rounds), and the ES hit 23 again. The ES I can work on, the technique apparently is going to take a while. But really, I had a good day at the range. Between two rifles, close to 120 rounds, and five hours of almost no one else there, it was pretty good. I am pretty sure I got the heartbeat wobble beat, it's down to about a dot. Trigger work is sporadic at best, needs way more concentration. And I got to watch some really bad form and learn from their groups. Might have seen a brand new T3 barrel get ruined, but maybe not. |
|
@ 02:01 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: Learning.I had a chuckle at the barrel. I shouldn't but I did. Always learning! Sorry to hear the groups opening up. Mine did quite bad, it was copper. My rifle will be due for a thorough stripping again soon. Roughly every 200 rounds maybe closer to 180 and I am at 130 since the last good stripping.I have been polishing the throat more regularly too. Helping to keep pressures uniform and extend barrel life. But 5 hours and 120 rounds is a great day. I'd love as much but only get that time when our weather is 40°C plus. Not the greatest for shooting... |
|
@ 03:00 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Learning.Sorry, I miscounted. It was only 100 (243 = forty fireforming, twenty of the alleged accuracy load; 30 cal = 30 fireforming and 10 hunter). I found a box that I thought I had shot under my screwdriver kit. But still, nice to get out.I'm not sure about the copper. The barrel doesn't really show that much, just a very slight colouration, no build up to speak of. Like you, I do polish the throat often. Today for sure. Maybe too many times? It's obviously a slow fouler, but maybe today was the turning point and it needs to be stripped and start over. I think I'll try a couple more just to be sure the group is opening up before I strip it completely. The gent with the T3 said it was right out of the box and he was going to sight it in. Before I could get back to my bench, he had put three down the tube. By the time I settled in, he had adjusted the scope and put two more through it. We doubled up when I shot and as I was spotting my shot he took another. After that, I quit caring and counting. Oh well, it's still pretty. While we're here, Nathan if you are following this, is there a pattern to groups that will show shooter fatigue? I did notice that late in the day, as the groups got shot, they had a tendency to expand. Some went to the right, some to the left, some just opened up. Very erratic, no telling which way, yet all felt good for breathing and trigger. Sight picture was good before and after, no scope cuts, no bruising. I'm not going to change anything, just re-test the bad ones, see if it was me. |
|
@ 12:40 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: Learning.I don't know if it helps but I notice fatigue groups just open right up. I do think fouling came into play at this point too however. Plus the temp climbed very quickly. It was last summer... we get very hot summers here. And they seem to be getting hotter.One thing that occurs to me is that with a magnetospeed unit you cannot test accuracy and velocity on the same loads... this perhaps is the down side of these units as they are mounted onto the end of the barrel. |
@ 02:19 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Learning.Hi Paul, yes, high right is normally fatigue. But some guys open right up and double group which is a sign of issues with the either the shoulder or eye. Both can be isolated. Feel free to call if need be or arrange for me to call you. Its been ages since we have had a catch up. |
@ 12:10 am (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: Learning.Hey Paul. How many nips and naps did you have between 100yrd flatland strings? At our age ewe need to look after yourself a bit more lol |
Please wait
ABOUT USWe are a small, family run business, based out of Taranaki, New Zealand, who specialize in cartridge research and testing, and rifle accurizing.
|
KNOWLEDGEBASE |
KNOWLEDGEBASE |