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> Trigger dillema
Trigger dillema
@ 07:56 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifI need advice on upgrading the 2-stage "HACT" triggers on a couple Howas. Timney sells a 1.5-4 lb., which they'll ship preset to the 5 lb. increment of your choice. Following Nathan's advice in "the book," I would order them preset to 1.5 lbs. The Timney also has adjustable creep and over-travel, plus I wouldn't have to buy a trigger pull guage. This trigger is pricey, $160USD. Rifle Basix also sells a replacement 1.5-4 lb. unit, preset to 2 lbs - a tad cheaper, $135. The economical option is a replacement spring kit for the factory trigger from Gunbloke in AU, $20. They have both 1.5 and 2 lb. kits, which also come with a lighter spring for 1st stage "take up." I don't mind spending the money on the Timneys, if it's worth it. I've had pretty good luck selling unneeded parts on Ebay. I could probably recoup some of the expense selling the HACT triggers. I rather like the 2 stage "feel," and think maybe it's a good idea for a hunting gun with a gloved finger. With the spring kit, I would have the option of a using the factory 1st stage spring, or the lighter one supplied with the kit. I could justify the expense of a pull-weight guage if I went the spring-kit route, but would that be useful on a 2 stage trigger? Money is a factor. I'm not going to buy all 3 and see which one I like best - hence this post. |
Replies
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@ 07:59 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillema"Spelling is discipline of the small mind." - Mark Twain |
@ 08:16 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Trigger dillemaThey do go quite well with the springs changed or modified Scott. I have not however tried the brand of springs you mentioned. Should be fairly straight forwards.Its really going to be up to you, whether you want 1 or 2 stages. If money is a factor, perhaps start with the cheapest route, see how the springs go for a season. |
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@ 09:10 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaThanks, Nathan. The cheapest route would, of course, be trimming the factory spring. Sinece the 1st stage take-up won't be affected, there would seem to be little, if any, risk of inducing a slam-fire condition. The worst that could happen is turning it into a single-stage trigger with the pull-weight of the 1st stage spring. |
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@ 11:14 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaI found Howa's illustration of the internals of the trigger, and can see that my previous statement was wrong. The actuator spring has to exert at least 1.5 lbs. of force on the actuator for the trigger to break at 1.5 lbs., and that the only way to measure it with a gauge would be to reassemble the trigger without the 1st stage take-up spring installed. In any event, I acknowledge that TBR cannot condone such practices. |
@ 02:39 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Trigger dillemaI've used Timneys, Jewels, and Rifle Basix triggers on a variety of makes and models. I've also modified originals when replacement triggers are not yet available. Spring kits are nice and handy, and do exactly what they say they do. The same with the big name trigger companies. One thing I've learned about triggers and springs is that it is not wise nor economical to cut or modify a factory spring. So much can and will go wrong. For the price of the kit from the Gunbloke, it's worth trying. If you don't like it, oh well, it was twenty bucks. A trigger gauge is worth its weight in gold. For fine tuning and checking consistency, they can't be beat. Wheeler has a good one, cheap and reliable, and a lifetime warranty. |
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@ 03:09 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaThanks, Paul. I think your advice is sound. A cut off spring won't seat properly. When you're dealing with ounce tolerances, it's not worth the risk. |
@ 10:06 pm (GMT) |
Euan SimpsonRe: Trigger dillemaHello,I don't post much but thought I could chip in. I had the same dilemma as you exactly a few months ago. Bone stock Howa 1500 with HACT trigger. Wasn't sure I wanted a single stage either, and was reluctant to spend big money on a Timney (although they seem great). I tried trimming the spring. It didn't go too well. The trimmed edge bound up against the adjustment screw or, if I flipped the spring, against the actuator bit. I tried polishing or bending the cut edge of the spring but lost patience! Didn't seem like I was going to improve things overall. So I bought Gunbloke's 1.5lb kit. I fitted both springs. Measured 1.5lb on the nose and pretty consistent. Passed a rough 'bang it against lots of things lots of ways" safety test. Have put perhaps 50 rounds through the rifle since. Was very easy to fit. Adjustment screw still works with new trigger. I'm very happy with my trigger now, would do it again. Good luck with your decision. |
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@ 06:29 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaThanks, Euan. You confirmed the problrm I envisioned with trimming the spring. Also good to know there's a measure if adjustability with the Gunbloke spring. Since I'm doing 2 rifles, I'll be able to match their pull weights. |
@ 06:13 pm (GMT) |
Jon ShortRe: Trigger dillemaI modified several HACT triggers years ago down to 1.5-1.75lbs by taking the trigger apart & using a dremmel to machine down the actuator face that the main spring presses against. This reduces the spring tension a bit to allow further adjustment down. I measured what I had done, drew a picture with approx measurements & believe that it was published in one of Nathan's books. From memory its in the accurising & maintenance book? Yes you need a trigger pull gauge but they are not expensive & worth owning.The two I did varied slightly in terms of how much to take off the actuator so take it down slowly & reassemble & check often if you plan to do this. You will have to re assemble, check the pull & disassemble etc a few times to get it right but they do come up pretty well. I can get one done in 1 hr so they do not take long once you know what you are doing. (the single stage earlier version took me 6 hrs!) And yes of course TBR can't condone this ;-), but hey, I know it works. Check the safety works too after the mod & that with the bolt cocked with safety off, that with a solid jolt (solidly bump the riffle butt on the floor) the trigger won't release the firing pin. Nathan will prob want to chime in on this perhaps? Replacing the spring itself would be easiest but when I did my two HACT triggers, they were new on the scene & softer suitable replacement springs were not available. A replacement spring would be the easiest solution I reckon. Cheers, Jon |
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@ 03:00 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaThanks, Jon. I remember that now from the book, which also said replacement springs were unavailable at the time. Your solution made more sense than trimming the spring. I think I'll just order a couple springs, now that they're available. |
@ 08:58 am (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldRe: Trigger dillemaFor stateside people wading through similar considerations, I just installed a spring from M-CARBO. My experience was positive from ease of ordering to delivery time to accuracy of instructional aids. My trigger pull gauge is the cheapest of the cheap but it shows about a 30% reduction in trigger weight. Whether that's accurate or not the difference is obvious. I am really glad that I tried the spring replacement before some other options I have considered. |
@ 02:05 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: Trigger dillemaJust a point on two-stage triggers vs single-stage triggers:I tend to prefer the two-stage designs because I like having that couple pounds of tension in my trigger finger while I wait for the right moment to fire. However, after working with the TriggerTech that’s in my Remington, I can’t really see a way to work with a two-stage if the second stage is this light. With the very light pulls of about 1.5 pounds or less on other models, I think all you can really do is just rest your finger on it with just a few ounces of force or you’re gonna fire the gun. So with a two-stage, I think the design works best for me when the second stage is a fairly hefty 2.5 or 3 pounds, which is perfectly fine for me at ordinary hunting ranges as long as the trigger breaks very cleanly, which the HACT and Savage AccuTrigger both do. But for the extremely light pulls that are at or under 1.5 pounds, I think I would prefer the single-stage just for ultimate control over the very light pull, ensuring it won’t go off until I decide it’s gonna go off. Just my current view, take it for what it’s worth, just thought I’d share it with ya. |
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@ 08:11 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaJoshua: Thanks, but M-Carbo doesn't offer replacement springs for the HACT trigger.Ryan: Yeah, I'm concerned about going too light. At the range, I want it as light as possible. Hopefully practice will preclude firing a warning shot while hunting! |
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@ 03:23 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: Trigger dillemaWell just to be clear, Scott, I might be totally off the mark with all that. That’s just my current view on the subject, always liable to change after new information comes in, it’s not set in stone or declared to be some kind of ultimate truth. |
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@ 06:15 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaThanks, Ryan. There are no pontificators on this forum. I appreciate your input. |
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@ 04:31 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Trigger dillemaScott - you may be pleasantly surprised at how a light weight trigger performs. My hunters are all set at 1-1/2#, so the feel is consistent from rifle to rifle. For the most part, they all adjust downwards to around 8 - 10 oz for range work. Once you fire them and get the feeling imprinted in your muscle memory, they are the same as any other trigger. You can still feel the moment just before let-off and you can hold that point until you are ready. Now, having said all that, I've tried a couple of 1 oz triggers and they are way beyond my level. But again, that just may be training and familiarization. |
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@ 07:39 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Trigger dillemaThanks, Paul. The safety on the HACT locks the sear, so I'm not concerned about it going off if I drop the rifle, plus it's got the middle position to chamber a round in safe mode. I'll slam the bolt and drop test anyway, of course, with it in the fire position. My question now is whether I'll be able to feel the "wall" after compressing the first stage take-up spring. That's probably why Gunbloke also supplies a lighter take-up spring in the kit. |
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@ 08:18 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Trigger dillemaJust a reminder to Scott and others (as an aside). Please remember to oil these parts when working on them. It is easy to pass salt from your hands to a trigger unit. Make sure you oil your springs and also oil your sears during test fires (during adjustments). If you oil sears as an after thought, it may alter the final pull weight. |
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