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> Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor question
Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor question
@ 11:57 am (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldQuite some time ago Andrew Murray made a great point on this forum when he said that there is much to be gained by studying an entire caliber series in The Practical Guide to Long Range Hunting Cartridges, not just focusing on one cartridge. Our family recently came into possession of a compact stocked 6.5 Creedmoor. I have had my nose up when it came to the Creedmoor all along, but here we are. So when we unexpectedly entered into the Creedmoor cult I had to go back and revisit Nathan's writings on this cartridge. Thankfully, I remembered what Andrew said many moons ago and started with the Swede which was highly informative. By the way, even if you have no interest in the 6.5 mm bore you owe it to yourself to read Nathan's reflection on his early mentoring from the New Zealand Deerstalkers Association and Wayne Thompson in the 6.5x55 section (pp. 192-194 in the Second Edition). My question is whether anyone has experience with bullets introduced since Nathan's Creedmoor pieces were published. Specifically, I am curious about the 130 gr TMK vs. the 140 gr. TGK, whether the 140 gr. Ballistic Tip has merit when measured against the Partition, and has the 147 gr. ELD-M been as advertised? I hope you all are healthy and safe. |
Replies
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@ 11:58 am (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionShamelessly posting a reply so the thread will show in the homepage feed... |
@ 12:46 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionHi Joshua. Paul Leverman indirectly answered the same question when I got all heady about the 6.5 PRC: “It’s still a 6.5. Might give a 30-40 yard advantage.” |
@ 07:22 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionJosh,Like you I ended up with a 6.5 Creedmoor and I sort of just put it in my safe for awhile. It sort of fell like that if I took it out and shot it I'd be the proverbial hockey player who took up figure skating. But I have a 25-06 that I dearly love and the ballistics and game weights are similar so I decided to give it a whirl with the 147 grain ELD-M. My decision right or wrong was to use the 6.5 Creedmoor exactly as I would use my 25-06. Light game such as whitetails, pronghorn, feral pigs, etc. out to 400 yards. Used in this way I've taken two whitetail and a single young feral boar. The ELD-M did violent work and all animals poleaxed. i cannot comment about distances longer than 250 yards because I have not taken any animals further than that with my 6.5. I'd say used in a responsible manner it's a very effective tool with the 147 grain factory ELD-M. My feeling is still that if I were to go further than 400 yards or was hunting larger game I'd go with my 308 or 30-06. Good hunting! |
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@ 03:02 pm (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionThanks, Lane. Your use of your rifle matches the parameters ours will operate within for the foreseeable future. I'm glad to hear of positive results with the ELD-M. My heart remains true to the .30-06 but my curiosity is eager to experiment with the little gun. I do miss the freedom to smugly enjoy all the Creedmoor memes though. |
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@ 07:38 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionJosh,Agreed on the memes! I just look at that cartridge within the parameters and game weights of the 243, 25-06, 6.5 Swede, etc. As Mr. Myagi said, "If done right, no can defend." |
@ 04:37 am (GMT) |
Florida CrackerRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionOk, I'm going to wade into Creedmoor territory along with Josh and Lane, but the difference is a) I do not have a collection of rifles to choose from and, b) I am a total newbie when it comes to hunting and long guns. I have access to family hunting property in SE US where ambush hunting (tree stands) has been the traditional mode. About 90% is forested (visibility at beginning of season is about 40-60 yds. but at the end after foliage drop it extends to about 75 yds.) Scattered about is the occasional open field - typical maximum open distances are 400-600 yds. Rolling terrain. Game is whitetail, but expect feral hogs in the future as they are already in the region.So the question is - What can and can't you do with 6.5 CM and are the limitations the result of bullet offerings or some fundamental limitation of the cartridge? Would the CM be appropriate for the shooting conditions described? I'm not so much interested in "oh, you should get xyz caliber instead" - Just want to know about the 6.5 - strengths and weaknesses. Curious/unbiased/opinion-less mind wants to know. Thanks in advance. |
@ 09:38 pm (GMT) |
Magnus HanssonRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionQuick reply from Sweden ..the true home of the 6,5??We use the 6,5X55 for everything from birds to moose, when hunting boars, fallow, reds, bear and moose we are required to use 10gram bullets ..hence Norma produces a couple of 156gr (10,1gram) alternatives. (There is a loop hole if you can push a 9gram bullet to a certain energy at 100m) Average distance to killed moose is around 50m and most of the the hunting we do no matter the quarry is in forest areas with in 100 meters. The 6,5 works well for what we need it to do ..and has done so for generations. Is there better cartridges?? Of course there is ..a 180gr 30-06 is a far better option for moose. But on the other hand ..a 140gr accubond can be really useful inside 100m on medium game where you don’t need all the power of bigger cartridges. I’ve also seen 156gr oryx used on small deer as roe ..not delivering wide wounding when it meets low resistance not hitting the shoulder ..renders slow killing. Thats my experiences from Sweden 👍 |
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@ 02:01 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionFlorida,There has probably been more stuff written about this subject over the last 5 years than the next 5 calibers combined. So if you come with an agenda you're going to find someone somewhere who will write something that agrees with you. If you're open minded as I'm certain you are then the best thing to do is to see a rifle caliber on a certain set of game in specific conditions much like a set of shop tools, golf clubs, etc. It's just a tool. If you don't push it to the extreme then it can be a useful tool. I can only tell you what my experiences are as an open country hunter. A whitetail deer isn't much when it comes to body weight or resistance to bullets which is one reason why cup and core bullets work so well on them. The 147 grain ELD-M has shown to be very effective on the whitetails in my area both in the Texas South Plains and in Central Texas which is less open. if you read Nathan's book on cartridges and overlap between the 243, 25-06, 6.5 Swede, 6.5 Creedmoor, and up to say the 7 mm-08 you're going to have an idea of where the 6.5 Creedmoor fits. It just isn't a jack of all trades. It's good for whitetail I know for sure. Out to reasonable distances. Beyond a certain distance you're going to have experienced hunters telling you that you need something bigger. That's just the reality. You're not going to have any problems with the combination of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 147 grain ELD-M out to 400 yards on southern whitetail I don't believe. Past that you're going to be left with guys like me telling you to pick up a 7 mm-08, 308, 30-06, etc. No different between using a set of wrenches. Sometimes you need a bigger one. |
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@ 09:29 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionI agree with Lane. I would also suggest you get Nathan’s Tools Bundle, which gives you a discount on two of his books - Long Range Cartridges and Long Range Rifles. He covers the 6.5 CM and other 6.5s. He also gives you the maximum range, and game body weight, each cartridge is capable of. But he also cautions about the pitfalls of over-confidence. If I watch Tiger Woods select a 9-iron for a 200 yard approach shot (a chip shot for him), it doesn’t mean I can do it. So yeah, the 6.5 CM would be a fine choice for 90% of your hunting, i.e., white tails <= 100 yards. Go for it. If you’re serious about shooting pigs at 400-600 yards, you have ask yourself, What could possibly go wrong. |
@ 10:53 am (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionAs a long time 6.5 fan, let me throw something out there. When I parse cartridges and rifles in terms of performance, they fall into a few categories for me as the guy behind the gun:1 - easy to shoot all day, can spot my own shots as I make them (.223) 2 - pleasant to shoot, but cannot spot my own shots (6.5 CM for me) 3 - tolerable, cannot spot my own shots (e.g. .30-06, 7mm RM) 4 - on the edge of what I can handle - risk of inducing bad technique 5 - beyond my present skill or will to employ Now, here's my thinking - you're not likely to get a 6.5 CM hunting rig into group 1. In a field environment, there isn't really a functional difference between 2 and 3. Between those, you're really weighing up things like cost and availability of components, impact on your practice regimen, etc. |
@ 06:46 am (GMT) |
Florida CrackerRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionFirst of all, thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. The responses were practical and useful input.Several mentioned Nathan's books on Long Range rifles and cartridges. I have purchased/read all of the other books published by Nathan and Steph but frankly I didn't think my hunting scenario qualified for "long range" as Nathan seemed to reserve that term for shots beyond 400 yds. (I think he termed shots between 400-600 yds. as "intermediate long range".) So I never bothered to purchase those two books. Your suggestions have prompted me to reverse that decision. Thanks again to everyone for input. |
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@ 02:26 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Invoking Andrew to ask a (gulp) Creedmoor questionOne point that Magnus made a couple of times is worth noting. His experience with the 6.5 Swede inside 100 yards on moose and red deer with a stout bullet is in line with my experience seeing younger hunters take animals inside 100 yards with the 243 Winchester, and the 25-06. A 120 grain Nosler Partition out of a 25-06 inside 100 yards can be deadly on Red Deer; Scimitar Horned Oryx; and Barasingha Deer. These animals are of varying degrees of body configuration and toughness. I have also seen the 100 grain (or thereabouts) Nosler Partition do good work out of the 243 on these animals inside 100 yards. Shot placement was very precise and range was close in all cases.Doing this with a whitetail with cup and core bullets, or ELD-M's with your 6.5 is going to produce great results. |
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