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> Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...
Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...
@ 01:08 pm (GMT) |
Rob Bird...back from the gunsmith today! I went with a 26" barrel plus brake. It's a tall drink of water! For reference, here it is between a Swedish Mauser and a Kentucky rifle kit project (it's the black stocked one).
And between a Schmidt Rubin 1911 and a Weatherby Vanguard 257 Mag. 
The great news is that a 208 gr ELD-M seated to the lands is 3.402 inches and fits nicely in the magazine. 
Even that length seats the bullet down past the neck/shoulder junction. 
Can't wait to shoot it! Next step, fire-forming brass. |
Replies
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@ 01:14 pm (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Gonna try again on those images. I couldn't see a way to edit my original post.
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@ 01:16 pm (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle... |
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@ 01:17 pm (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Well, crap. Can't make the images work. |
@ 01:32 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Glad you got it! Congratulations. |
@ 07:24 am (GMT) |
Magnus VassbotnRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Sounds great. Looking forward to hear what top velocities and what accuracy velocities you get. Keep us posted.Good luck! Magnus. |
@ 09:52 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...That should be a ripping calibre/combo Rob. The 208's really do give terrific in close and extended range performance!What action did you use? |
@ 10:13 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Hi Rob, great to hear. The 26" barrel will give high speeds. Will check in with you by PM when I get a chance. |
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@ 10:58 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Thanks, all. Took it to the range yesterday to fire-form some cases and break in the barrel. Overall it did well and grouped nicely, though I was only at 50 yards. Still, I had only just hastily thrown together some loads with the lowest book load with Winchester 760 (not what I will end up using) and 168 grain Interlocks.It was fouling readily on each shot with noticeable copper streaks on the rifling (I brought along a bore scope). Kept it clean as I went and it did just fine. Brought it home and polished the bore. Can't wait to see what kind of velocities and grouping I get with the Superformance and 208s. Will keep you apprised. |
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@ 10:58 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Martin, it's on a Tikka 695. Smooth as butter. |
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@ 10:04 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Good stuff Rob, will be interesting to hear your results.The Tikka's are definitely hard to beat for build quality & tolerance from a mass produced factory Rifle. I wish the T series had a bigger mag design though.... |
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@ 08:49 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Martin, yeah, I'm lucky the 695 has a suitably long magazine for this cartridge, though after a chat with Nathan, sounds like they may have ground the throat section of the reamer slightly wrong, so I am only getting 3.40 as a maximum COAL versus 3.45. Nathan predicted a loss of around 50 fps because of this.I just ran my first tests with 208 gr ELD-M and Superformance, using Hornady cases from some Precision Hunter factory rounds. Federal 210 primers. I worked up to 57 grains (from 55) and most of the loads mucked around in the lower 2600 fps range, with the 57 grain load hitting an average of 2656 fps but an ES of 80. Each group had fliers but I really need to bed this rifle or "glue and screw" it. It's got an odd recoil lug, not like the T3, so I'm not sure how to go about a bedding job. More tests forthcoming. Primers were looking fairly smashed but no ejector scrapes/indentations that I could see. So I may try to pump the load a bit more to see where it takes me. I forgot to note how full the case was with the 57 grains. I also have some 200 gr Partitions on the way... |
@ 07:52 pm (GMT) |
Anders ÖsterbergRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...On the bedding.On my Tikka Master M595 308win and Tikka M658 6.5x55 I had permanet glued the recoil lug to the action and then bedded like a normal action whit masking tape on needed places . It's very easy to angeling the recoil lug while gluing if you use a caliper and shut the jaws against the sides of the action and press the scale in the middle against the back of the lug and press it forward while glueing . The flattned primer is a headspace issue that probably disappear after that the case is fireformed and seized to proper headspace. |
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@ 01:11 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Thanks, Anders. Regarding the primer, this happened on a fire-formed case, although this was only the first loading after the initial fire-forming.The stock I have appears to be unmolested from the factory, but the recoil lug is embedded in the plastic already. It's a flat, aluminum piece with a hole in it to receive the corresponding raised boss on the bottom of the action. Nathan also told me at one point that the blocks are not fixed in the stock from the factory but I would be VERY surprised if this one was a home job. It's too smooth and looks integrated into the stock. I am going to install aluminum pillars and then do Nathan's "glue and screw" to see where that gets me. If I do end up bedding it, I can see how I could bed in areas besides the recoil lug, but am not sure how it's possible to bed the lug itself. Did you grind away some of the lug and fill it with bedding material? Do you put bedding material into the hole in the lug? |
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@ 07:57 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Hi Rob, although the OAL is slightly shorter, the AI dimensions are ensuring (based on your speeds) that your rifle still has the same or more potential than the parent cartridge. The high ES is as you suspect, related to the empty space still in the case. Neck tension is also key, but the tension must not be so high as to distort seating / concentricity.Also try R22 if you can get hold of it with the 210 primer. This one might be able to make use of an H1000 burn rate stick powder thanks to both the AI body and long barrel, but you must use a magnum primer to adjust the burn rate slightly. You'll be up around 60 grains if using this burn rate. The L shape lug is not easy to mock bed. For now, check to see if it passes the 1 o'clock test. Also check for side to side movement of the receiver in the stock with the screws out. Check for any flexing through the action area and forend. stocks from this time (and the first Sako's / civvy TRG) had somewhat weak plastic. If there is any movement, perhaps go straight to bedding. No, unfortunately nothing can be poured into the hole in the L shaped lug. The lug needs metal to metal contact at the rear and to be clear / floating at the front. You might be able to remove the lug by soaking the receiver area of the stock in boiling water for a minute or so. Then set about bedding as per the web or Tikka video instructions (Video learning tab). I have made alteration to the reamer designs so that this type of thing (difference in OAL) will hopefully never happen again. I have also changed all case mouths to a transition angle of 30 rather than 45 degrees to lesson the severe erosion one typically sees at this point. I have also set the neck and freebore dimensions to accommodate suppressor carbon caking and reamer wear while keeping to optimal dimensions, carbon caking being a factor most overlook but needed to be addressed. I worked on this throughout last year but signed them off only recently. All drawings hence forth should be marked FMR 2021. I also added the .264 Win Mag while I was at it, improving the throat design which was set up around projectiles which are no longer readily obtainable, resulting in very short OALs in the original rifles followed ultimately by a range of non standardized / custom chamber variations for the last however many years. The specs I have gone with resemble the max OAL's one would expect (visually) in a factory 7mm RM but with 6.5 pills. Its a very bog standard set up from the outside but has a lot of math behind it, more power for the end user (though probably the same as many custom reamers) but with at least 80 thou room to chase and touch the lands with LR 6.5 pills. |
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@ 01:48 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Thank you so much, as always, Nathan. The Tikka stock is definitely very light, which is nice, obviously, but if it has too much flex, then obviously that's not good. Since I don't have access to your stock stiffening compound, what do you think of the idea of trussing the stock with aluminum or carbon rods (some use carbon arrows)? Is it even necessary given that, with the brake, the recoil is very manageable?I'm going to step up the Superformance load a bit more to see where that gets me once I get into a fuller case. I am definitely on the lookout for RL22. I will give the H1000 a try if Superformance fails to perform super-ly. |
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@ 07:51 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Hi Rob, work it out as you go. A brake or suppressor can dampen some elements, but if there is a great deal of stress in the action area of the stock, it will have an effect, as will preloaded bow like tension at the forend. Use whatever method works. In simple terms, if you can at the very least reinforce and then bed the beginning of the barrel channel, this will help lesson flexing (if such is required).A correction to my previous post regarding epoxy bedding. I said: The lug needs metal to metal contact at the rear and to be clear / floating at the front. The use of the word lug is incorrect. For clarity, it should read, the boss of the action needs metal to metal contact within the hole in the lug at the rear. The front of the boss should be floated. |
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@ 01:48 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Thank you! No correction needed, I knew what you were referring to. |
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@ 11:16 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...I just pillar-bedded the factory plastic stock. I bored out the holes to 7/16" (11mm) and cut pillars to suit the length. After epoxy-ing them into place, I pulled the action and saw that the pillar for the tang screw was protruding about a millimeter above the stock. I assume this is because of stock collapse due to torque.I am going to be doing the "glue and screw" method on this gun as a first attempt at accuracy. Do you all think I should put bedding material around this in order to effectively raise the level of the stock in the tang area before gluing? |
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@ 10:39 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Hi Rob, hard for me to answer this without going over the rifle myself. I assume you meant fitted pillars as opposed to pillar bedding. If you have altered it this far, you may as well go the full route now and get the bedding done if you have the time etc. The concern with not doing this, is that the action might be quite poorly aligned to the lug.If you do choose to mock bed just to see how it suits while contemplating a new Boyds stock, all I would suggest is a good fill during the mock test. Don't bother building anything up in layers. |
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@ 03:56 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...I just bedded around the semi circular boss on the tang and found that there is a lot more room around it than I had assumed. It is not even close to contacting the stock around its sides.I also finally noticed that someone had indeed bedded the lug. They did such a neat job of it that I thought it was from the factory. But I have no way of knowing how it interfaces with the round boss there. I realize that if I really want to do this right, I will have to re-bed the lug. No worries. Do it right, do it once. Also, since I can't buy your stock stabilizer, I'm trying to figure out what kind of epoxy to use to stabilize the forend. There are resins for filling large voids in wood, though they often come in gallons and cost a couple hundred dollars. |
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@ 07:14 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Just an update for this rifle, Rob reports that after the initial break in, the max OAL (208gr) was 3.435" or 87.25mm, out where it should be. I have nevertheless made the changes mentioned (back 7 posts re 2021 reamers) to ensure optimum performance. |
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@ 01:11 pm (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Well, I got the rifle bedded and have been working up a load. I finally got a somewhat sticky bolt at 2800 fps using a 208 grain ELD-M over 59.7 grains of Superformance. Group was .6 inches (1.5cm). I'm not unhappy with the group though will work to refine the load to see if it'll tighten up a bit. Currently seating about .010 off of the lands. I may back off of the load .2 grains. I have reason to believe my chronograph reads a little fast, possibly 30 fps or so.I also need to see how the barrel feels about 200 grain Partition. I'll update periodically and I'm open to any and all suggestions! |
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@ 04:35 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Ok, so, I decided I needed to "stop mucking around" and get myself some Lapua brass. Got 20 cases fire formed a couple of weeks ago and finally was able to get back to the range to test loads. All case necks were turned.59 grains of Superformance with the 208 grain ELD-M got me an average of 2825 fps with a .4" (10mm) group, with 4 of the 5 shots in .25" (6.25mm). Hallelujah! Bullets were seated .050" off the lands. I went with this depth because of one of the linked articles in Vince's "Bullet jump research" thread. That one "flier" absolutely could've been me. I also don't love my Scope reticle (Sightron tactical with MOA reticle). I have a bit of a hard time seeing the dot in the center. Anyway, I'm pleased as punch, though I don't want to jinx myself. Obviously I need to replicate the results. I'll be swapping to my Burris Veracity scope. Then I'll be off to try some long range shooting for the first time! Thanks go to Nathan for all of his help, not to mention for co-designing the reamer for this. For those that are interested, this was built by McGowen barrels in Montana. |
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@ 06:39 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Rob, that's fantastic news. I didn't realize you were here in the U.S. For some reason I thought you were in New Zealand. That's going to make a wicked elk rifle, and I pity the black bear that crosses your path. It's so good to hear about the FMR design in the 30-06 AI being put to good use. I may have missed it but what did your OAL end up being?I like the fact you're sort of keeping us posted as you progress along. Best of luck over the summer and this Fall! |
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@ 12:49 pm (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: Just got my Foster-Manson 30-06 AI rifle...Thanks, Lane. My max COAL is 3.435 but I seated 50 thou off the lands. I'm measuring base to ogive for consistency since the polymer tips can vary a lot. |
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