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> 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?
308 win as a all around North American hunting round?
@ 10:27 pm (GMT) |
PhillBilly9054So the main part of my question is stated in the title of this topic. However I realize that this is a very broad topic and could take a lot of space to answer. So pretty much what I am looking for is whether or not I can ethically and effectively hunt the larger of the game species in North America where I live. So the specific question is can I ethically and effectively use my 308 win to hunt larger game animals such as moose, and elk inside of a 1000 yards but farther than 500 yards? And how does the 308 perform for large game hunting passed 1000 yards?My background is a avid shooter out to 200 yards. I live in the south east were we have a lot of scrubby pine and oak forests so we don't get a chance to shoot much passed 150 yards at a game animal. I am slowly working my way into long range shooting and hunting but it is a slow process for me at this point. Mostly I have been just researching and gathering as much information. Thanks a lot |
Replies
@ 10:41 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Hi phill just couple questions that will help people with more experience then my self answer your question.do you handload? what make/model is your 308? what optics are you using? what is it currently grouping like? the knowledge base on this website is a great place to start. the book series that Nathan has written will be the best place to start if your seriously thinking bout getting into long range shoot (or anything to do with rifles or ballistics for that matter) |
@ 11:20 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Phill have a read of this link as Thomas has suggested and you will start to understand some of the questions raised!Many, many rabbit holes to head down with this question Phill, it will help your research no end! http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.308+Winchester+7.62+NATO.html And order Nathan's cartridge book and you will have find all the answers for this cartidge and many more other effective LR options/combinations. Field proven with no BS. |
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@ 12:23 am (GMT) |
Phillip ChapmanRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Thanks for responding so fast. I will try to answer as best I can.Currently I don't handload. But I plan on that changing in the next couple of years. My rifle is a Remington 700 SPS-AAC-SD completely stock. I have a cheap 3x9x40 scope on it. I plan on getting a aftermarket stock with an aluminum bedding block in it. As well as getting a FFP scope that has it's highest magnification with at least 20. As well as replacing the trigger with either a Huber or a Timney. As for my grouping like I said earlier there isn't a lot of room to shoot around where I live. So I really only get to shoot out to about 100-150 yards. But I am consistently getting .75 inch groupings at 100 yards. The load I am using is the Federal Deer Thug 165 gr soft point. Which I found out is actually a Speer Deep Curl bullet. Unfortunately I can't find the powder grain measurements or the brand/type of powder they use. I am shooting out of a 20 inch Varmint barrel with a 1/10 right hand twist. I have the trigger turned down to 2.5 pounds. The longest shot I have taken at this point is about 300 yards and that was a rarity. I apologize if I seem like a newbie but I have always loved anything long range related and I am working very hard to get to a place where I can afford to do it. Again, thank you so much for your time. |
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@ 12:59 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?phil sounds like you got a good platform (rifle) that will suit you well. handloading will really help you get the most out of it, specially with projectile choice. you have come to the right place to learn, im still a newbie but there is alot of great people on here willing to share there knowledge. sounds like Nathans books will really serve you well. |
@ 01:04 am (GMT) |
jasonRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?I'm no expert but I'd say no. Not a moose at 1000 yards.I'm not sure of all the official numbers of down range energy etc. I'm sure in the right hands and a bit of luck it could be done. But hardly ethical. I would compare it to somewhere along the lines of using a shovel or spade to dig rock out of a quarry or mine when you could use an excavator. It could be done but not really the tool for the job. I believe target shooters with .308 are just supersonic at 1000 yards. I'm not sure how well it would take a moose at 500. But your room for error would be much bigger than at 1000. Even when you have a more capable cartridge it takes a fair bit of experience reading wind at extended ranges to be confident. I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm, use your .308 to shoot some long range targets get some practice in see how you go, you might also understand better what I'm saying. I would limit your .308 and get a magnum for long range hunting there's nothing like knowing you have plenty of power! (As said I'm no expert, Nathan may join in later or anyone else, feel free to correct me) |
@ 01:34 am (GMT) |
Peter BjerregaardRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Hi PhilAs Jason stated you'll be a bit ( or a lot) hampered by energy if wanting to shoot moose at 1000 yards. Nathan has a cut off at 700 yards (on goats) on his hunts when using the 308. I really think you should buy Nathan's book on long range cartridges. It'll answer your questions and help guide you towards the best combination of calibre, energy and ease of hand loading. Everyone here will tell you the same - get the book. Until then take a peek at the knowledge base as Martin said. A wealth of information for free. //Peter |
@ 02:54 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?ok Im known to be a subtle as a sledge hammer so I will answer this oneHELL NO!!!!!! using a 168grn match bullet and assuming you CAN get it going at 2900fps (which would be hot) at 500 yards you are down to1383ftlbs energy..jump to next ballistic table for next 500yatds start vel 1900 at 700yards you go below the 1000fps mark at 1000yards you have 561ftlbs left.projectile takes just under 1sec for last 500yards and drops 164" in that area as well+68 in first area/500 so yip trying to dig big rocks out with a shovel. thats a nosler match bullet so in theory is better at holding up, not a good premium game bullet that you would recommend for big solid chunky animals. heres a test for you my good man get a plastic milk jug and find some where that you can put it out to 450yards and see just how plurry hard it is to get a first round hit on it. why a milkjug??? similar size to vital are of an animal. |
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@ 02:55 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?sorry that should read at 700 you drop below 1000ftlb of energy mark. |
@ 03:28 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Hi Phillip, it is possible to connect on large game at 1000 yards but the bullet will just pencil through unless it loses stability and tumbles. A first shot connection is almost impossible unless you are shooting daily at your actual hunting ground. In other words, the reality is, you could walk shots in and eventually hit your animal, but then you will have great difficulty killing it. In summary, it is unethical.The .308 has gained quite a level of interest due to its role as a sniper cartridge. But there is a great deal about using this cartridge in this role that civilian shooters do not understand. Actually the same can be said of snipers and target shooters who attempt to hunt with the .308. From an experienced sniper perspective, if either Chris Kyle or Carlos Hathcock were alive, they would recommend the .300 Win Mag for your needs. But there is more to this than simply velocity / power. Bullet choice is a critical aspect. The book series does go into much greater detail Phillip. There is so much you need to learn to bridge the gap that currently exists within this method of hunting. The Cartridges book is a small investment and gives much greater detail than can be found elsewhere. Thanks for the plug guys, really appreciate it. 2900fps would be a hell of a push, 2670fps is more the average sweet spot. |
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@ 08:20 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?you got my point Nathan!!!!! I used that velocity for just that very reason ;-) |
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@ 09:16 pm (GMT) |
Phillip ChapmanRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Thank you all so much. I am going to get the cartridge book asap. Thank you all for you time and input. |
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@ 04:36 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Phill it is easy to say it will or will not work, but you need to understand the WHY's. This is where the recomendations for the knowledge base and better still Nathans books have come from.Once you have this knowledge, you will be able to asses many differant calibres, projectiles and energy levels to suit the application. There are factory loads that will suit your purpose in certain cals so reloading is not a must to shoot LR but it makes it a lot easier to acheive the accuracy needed. |
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@ 04:07 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?That should read Acess!................ haaaaaaaaaaaa not asses. |
@ 07:31 pm (GMT) |
Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-LambertiRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Hey Martin!! What were you thinking about hahaha!Phillip... nothing to add, except... You can shoot the 308 very much. I mean, it´s easy on barrels, and cheap on your wallet. Shoot it as much as you can, so you can learn to read the wind (I have to learn that also). 308 is a good "school cartridge", wind affect it a lot, so you have to be good. If you learn to shoot the 308, you will be able to shoot out long with a 7RM or 300WM (you need a good heavy rifle and good technique). Shoot a lot! |
@ 10:52 am (GMT) |
jerry kingRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round? |
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@ 10:54 am (GMT) |
jerry kingRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?I just stumbled across this ...what is this book you guys are referring to ...I'm guessing written by Nathan ...??? |
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@ 02:40 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 308 win as a all around North American hunting round?Hi Jerry. Nathan has written 4 excellent books in his serious now 1 more to go i believe, they are great books to read then have around as a reference for anything you need to know. if you go into the store part of this website you'll see them, well worth the money |
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