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> 300 Norma Magnum
300 Norma Magnum
@ 07:01 pm (GMT) |
Paul CartyI read this morning that SOCOM, US military Special Operations Command, have just adopted the 300 Norma Magnum as their sniper cartridge. A quick search reveals this is not the same as the 308 Norma Magnum.Curious if anyone has had a chance to fire one of these and how it performed as it would seem to be an ideal long range hunting cartridge? |
Replies
@ 07:18 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 300 Norma MagnumHi Paulthere isn't a lot of info on this cartridge but i have been doing bit of research lately as a few guys i know are interested in doing a build in 300 norma mag. so the 338 norma mag is pretty much a 338 lapua but is 2.5" long same parent case 416 rigby. the 300 norma mag is the 338 norma mag necked down, so kinder a 30/338 lapua shortened. im struggling to get exact figures on velocity, few guys doing improved versions and getting crazy velocity. im thinking somewhere around 3000fps with 225gr eld-m to put that into perspective that breaks 1800fps at 1080 yards 1600fps at 1310 yards 1400fps at 1560 yards which is pretty impressive for a case exactly the same length as the 30.06 so above velocity of 300 rum but maybe not as fast as 30-378 weatherby of course there's a price to pay in recoil and barrel life. now details of how i have figured out to do a build so far start with a 30.06 remington 700 long range rifles as the reamer length according to c.i.p specs are exactly the same so shouldn't have to set the barrel back. swap out the bolt for a ptg lapua bolt with m16 extractor. from what i can workout the standard magazine does feed but if not you can fit a wyatt cfe-13. normal trick up work using Nathan books and bedding compound. only real concern i have is if the standard barrel knox is thick enough to handle it. the advantage of using a separate ptg bolt is if once the barrel burns out you decide on something more mild the original bolt is still an option. dies are available from foster's not sure if anyone else makes them yet. norma makes brass. |
@ 05:14 am (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: 300 Norma MagnumHere is a link to load data for the 300 Norma Magnum that I found on a forum:http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5533-reloading-depot/13256385-300-norma-mag-load-data |
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@ 02:22 pm (GMT) |
Paul CartyRe: 300 Norma MagnumThanks for the replies. I'm still at the concept rather than planning stage and the responses are definitely food for thought. Raises alot of questions doesn't it?Is the supposed additional accuracy worth the cost of a custom build when compared to a 300RUM. Ditto barrel life, increased range, cost per shot, the list goes on. On the other hand toys are nice and it's sometimes fun to have something a bit different. The question then arises do I just go all out and save up for a 460 Steyr? Decisions decisions. I'll have to get my hands on the cartridges book before I get serious about this in any event. |
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@ 08:57 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 300 Norma Magnumjust a quick updatei was talking to Grant from trueflite barrels today. he has a 300 norma mag reamer and so far has built one rifle for a new caledonian client he's running the 208gr at 3120fps out of a 26" barrel. as for a 460 steyr i had to look it up what it is, if your target shooting there's plenty of options. im a hunter so still prefer the traditional kinder rifle |
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@ 02:20 pm (GMT) |
Paul CartyRe: 300 Norma MagnumThanks Thomas. Interesting to learn there is a reamer just across the ditch. I don't suppose you happened to find out what action the rifle was built on?The 460 Steyr was a "for example" as much as anything. I know there are a few guys around shooting Barrets, CheyTacs etc, but I'm not too sure if they actually do any hunting with them. I doubt I'll ever actually own such a beast but....never say never. The lack of a suitable range in my area looms as another barrier to exploiting the potential of such a rifle. As this will primarily be a hunting rifle portability remains a consideration too. I will be doing my fair share of target shooting by way of practice and probably fair to say I'll fire more rounds on the range than in a hunting situation. I just have to decide if the expense and hassle of building the Norma Mag is worth it compared to a 300 Win Mag or similar. |
@ 09:42 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 300 Norma MagnumHmm, regarding the SOCOM question. In the old days, a general consensus was that by keeping under 3000fps, a cartridge was less finicky. This is quite true. The .338 Lapua followed these lines by firing a 250gr pill at around 2900 to 2950fps. Still, it produced a lot of recoil and the rifles have been very heavy to carry for not a great deal of pay off.Nowadays it is possible to make a barrel that can handle the higher speeds. We can get the leade angle pretty well right to match a set projectile design to up our chances of accuracy across many rifles with one load. We can also reduce recoil by adding 30 pounds of picatinny railing and other crap rather than carrying unnecessary items in the desert such as water. Barrel life is no problem because with a big mil budget, you can change barrels as needed. Any residual recoil can be managed by tying a rope to yourself and your forend as you shoot from a tripod while doing your best prairie dog impression as per the latest in wonderful ideas on shooting technique. This comes with a free blaze pink T-Shirt showing a pair of dogs balls printed on the front. The premise is not so good if you are in the Kiwi or Australian mil brass ranks, get sucked into the latest thanks to a great sales pitch and a hollywood movie starring Keanu Reeves holding the same rifle- but are then given a budget of one rifle with its one barrel to last you 10 years while keeping your fingers crossed that a socialist government does not suddenly try to stretch that out to 20 years. Our military budget currently extends to a choice between buying a dozen eggs or some magic beans. The young folk tend to lean towards magic beans. So as far as military trends go, you must use your common sense and separate mil usage from civvy usage. My cynical comments aside, a fast and potent .30 has great merit. The older slower cartridges suffered a great deal of wind drift. There has been no getting around this. The .338 Lapua is quite simply slow with modern high BC bullets. The sevens are the hardest to beat but have been largely ignored since the 7.62 / .308 trials of the 50's. Nobody wants to admit that the Brits were right. To make a .30 shoot as well as a seven, it has to be driven faster. If you drive a .30 fast, you get both the reduced drift and the heavy pay load. When the two come together, it is simply awesome. The trade off is recoil and barrel wear. As for the hassle, that's your choice. I used a method in the cartridge book to help break down such choices. There are a whole bunch of folk out there using far too much power versus the ranges they actually shoot to along with bullets that sound impressive but don't deliver on impact. Also, the majority of folk cannot read the environment out where these cartridges begin to excel as they do not practice weekly so the extra power is wasted. This versus a whole other bunch of folk who are using far too little power, putting recoil and economy ahead of clean killing. Add to this a whole pile of experts blowing smoke up your backsides and suddenly everybody is confused. With the Norma, you can seat close to the lands for a few hundred rounds. With the RUM, it is hard to get right up close while rapid barrel wear soon opens the gap. |
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@ 05:05 pm (GMT) |
Paul CartyRe: 300 Norma MagnumThanks for the comments Nathan.Whilst the T-shirt might look good on me, my lack of access to a 1200m range does loom as a serious impediment to using this cartridge to it's full potential. I do appreciate your input and no bulls hit approach. |
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