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> Nathans new book, your thoughts!
Nathans new book, your thoughts!
@ 03:25 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorG'day All,Just thought l would see how everyone is finding Nathans new book? Being relativley new to long range hunting l have found it extremley imformative! It's great to have some max ranges for the large bodied game l hunt for both me & my rifle (cal). The "Wall" as Nathans describes it is extremely important to me whilst still learning. Great reading, l have read it twice now! Takes away the geuss work and helps build the confidence! Cheers Marty |
Replies
@ 04:46 pm (GMT) |
Jim MoseleyRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!This is an excellent book for both the rookie and experienced long range shooter. A wealth of info and just in time for Christmas. |
@ 07:40 pm (GMT) |
jason brownRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!without giving too much away, im interested in hearing more about nearly being shot... |
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@ 08:10 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Jim you are spot on and in Nathans normal straight to the point language, l think l am in the middle ground and there is good info all the way through including the calibres. Gaining heaps of great insight and experiance which helps heaps.Yeah Jason l wanted to stir nathan up about that to! |
@ 09:11 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Well, over the years there were many incidents due to my main occupation but I was always lucky. Luck, vigilence- maybe a bit of both. Who knows. But there were also a few freak occurances, this was one of them.The city bank was being robbed, I had just come in from hunting but stopped into town on the way through. It was my bad luck that I was driving the same car as the get away car and wearing the same jacket. I was a dead ringer (excuse the pun). The police were on the hunt for the vehicle, a detective spied me, followed me home on the quiet. He called for back up so they could have plenty of lead travelling in my direction. So I come home and think- these rifles need cleaning. I was culling and using semi autos at this particular time, my main rifle an SLR 7.62. I had an SKS as well, but it was not much chop compared to the SLR (or even the SMLE). Anyway, the SLR is sitting against the wall and I am cleaning the SKS and I let the bolt go with a lock n load clack just as the detective is trying to sneak into the house to test out his XTP hand loads. Well it all went tits up from there but as I wrote in the book- excellent self discipline, excellent training. I had two shot guns on my back as well. Those guys crept in quietly and I never noticed them. There were more further back, a good perimeter. The good old days when shotguns were kit- good stopping power with the potential to aim low for potential non lethal stopping. The 12 gauge Taser. It was an eventful and highly entertaining encounter and I must say thank goodness for hard liquor. Anyways, the next Friday I am at work at the front door of the city nightclub and a pile of cops turn up to check the place over. We could have up to 3000 punters on a given night, enough to keep us all busy. Boy did they lay it on thick when they came in- they gave me heaps. Bastards had a good laugh. Yes, good old days when we could give each other a bit of stick without a pile of paperwork and no harm done. |
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@ 09:37 pm (GMT) |
jason brownRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!great yarn Nathan.I believe you were overseas for a while, did that happen in n.z? |
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@ 09:43 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!That was in NZ. Overseas was a different ball game altogether.Thanks for the kind feedback guys, I really appreciate it. |
@ 10:56 pm (GMT) |
Michael NeesonRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Excellent read, great sense of humour too. I was particularly interested in the updated "fast killing" section. In my line of work we are taught that the human can lose half their circulating volume of blood into their chest. If there is an arterial bleed into that cavity, each rise and fall of the chest effectively draws that free blood in... It's scary how fast someone can expire from that sort of bleed without any obvious outward signs of injury. I often have my workmates stop and have a nosey when I'm reading the webpages at work. The autopsies are quite clinically interesting and I have to thank Nathan for that. It is not too much of a stretch to relate what he finds in his quarry to what we can find in high speed crashes and other penetrating trauma in our patients. TOP STUFF. Kudos for going and rechecking all your data... that's dedication. |
@ 03:04 am (GMT) |
Trevor WilkesRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Hi guys,Im looking forward to getting the new book myself sounds educational and entertaining by the sounds of things the last book is a little worn out may have to get another at the same time. So congrats Nathan hope ya make a million or two lol. cheers Trevor |
@ 11:44 pm (GMT) |
Gavin ChauRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!i bought it the day it came out as well (great book!) - one thing I would like to know is the minimum impact velocities of annealed bullets though |
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@ 03:26 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Depending on your projectile choice l treat annealing as extra insurance when used with your calibres min velocity window.Then if things are working for you with good results, step them out a bit further. As Nathan has said you need full fragmintation when things go south. |
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@ 04:06 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Beat me to it Martin. Thank you. That is what I was going to say.Further to this- If a generally unsuitable bullet is used (eg the .303 example given), because of the variables from one DIY operator to another when modifying projectiles, it can be difficult to determine one set max impact velocity. In such instances it is up to the reader to experiment and monitor killing performance, extending ranges step by step as Martin suggests. Hence why it was important to supply the tools and mindset needed so that a point is reached where the reader does not need me, he is his own expert. You are already thinking about this in a proactive manner by asking such questions. |
@ 09:14 pm (GMT) |
Barry SensingRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!I ordered the first book "The Practical Guide to Long Range Rifles" I really enjoyed the book. I have several books by famous American writers on Rifles and Cartridges for long range. None of them really gave any negatives on factory rifles. The reviews on factory rifles was one of my favorite parts of the book. I just ordered the new book. After reading some of the online cartridge data base on this site, I can't wait to read this book. Rifles and Cartridges have been my passion since I was a kid, I can't wait to find out how my favorite cartridges stack up in this book. I will give my honest opinion after I receive the book and read it. I am sure I won't be disappointed. |
@ 08:08 pm (GMT) |
Guy MainlandRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Hi I'm keen to know if there's mention of 6.5x55 in this book? I know it's not considered a long range caliber as such but I'm keen to learn all I can about my chosen caliber and want to support Nathan! |
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@ 09:49 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Hi Guy, yes I have included a section on the Swede. There is plenty of info for you to read and mull over, used in conjunction with the first parts of the book. |
@ 03:59 am (GMT) |
mark whiteleyRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!I am into my second time around and am understanding more and enjoying both booksregards mark |
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@ 10:17 am (GMT) |
Jim MoseleyRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Nathan,I know you been testing the Matrix quite a bit, but does the A-max still reign supreme for maximum long range kill due to low velocity expansion? I'm to embarrassed to to admit to how many times I've read the sections on the 243, 7mag, and the 7 Practical :-) Keep up the great work! |
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@ 01:10 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Hi Jim, hope your knee is getting stronger.Yes, to some extent the A-Max reigns champion for its ability to produce either fragmentation or expansion at very low velocities depending on bullet weight / individual designs as described in the book. One of the main advantages of the Matrix is that on tough bodied deer, it can be a more emphatic killer if close range snap shots are encountered- again depending on bullet design etc. To some hunters, the need for this dual role ability is extremely important. Others are content to dual load. You will have seen such discussions in the book. The A-Max is sometimes vastly misunderstood. I have had clients tell me, that gun store workers have told them that your 162gr 7mm A-max cannot be used at close ranges because it won't expand and can only expand at long ranges. I have heard this quite a few times and it simply defies physics. The book sets this straight by explaining what happens with the A-Max at close ranges- why large bodied deer display delayed killing, what to expect and so forth. really glad you guys are getting some good usage out of the books. Thanks for the kind comments Mark. |
@ 09:34 am (GMT) |
chris smithRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Hi all from the uk both nathans books are on spot on very good read and top class info all the best to you all out there chris |
@ 12:40 pm (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!I ordered both of Nathan's books in January and read them back to back when they arrived. Perhaps the strongest element of the books, for me, is the credibility created by several thousand kills and autopsies. On many topics it is hard to find sources that are not at least partly unproven speculation. Nathan refuses to write about something he has no direct experience with. I appreciate that approach.Treating the two books as one work, they helped me improve my understanding of many things. Here are the 3 I feel may be most significant. 1) The concept of "the wall." This is such a crucial thought. More shooters need to abandon the notion that they can shoot a bullet accurately out to whatever range it ceases being supersonic. We also need to look at bullet manufacturers low velocity expansion numbers as interesting trivia, not license to shoot an animal down to any certain velocity. 2) The wholesale rejection of the "faster is better" ideology. Nathan did not attack this line of thinking but its absence from his research and work was a healthy counter to a lot of the hype that it's tempting to listen to. I was initiated into hunting with the bow and arrow. Even in archery the pursuit of more and more speed has always marketed easily. In rifle discussions it seems to be almost a religion with some. Nathan's work provides a clear understanding of what it takes to kill cleanly and served as a good reminder for me that I do not need to drive a 180 gr. bullet 3400 fps in order to kill an elk. 3) FINALLY!!!! Clear explanations of what the differences are in rifles that to an untrained eye appear very similar or identical. You can't learn this stuff from outdoor magazines or manufacturers. Confession: my dream rifle for a couple of years now has been the Sako 85 Bavarian in .300 Winmag. This was based half on aesthetics and half on the love I have for the Marlin/Sako action .222 that I grew up shooting. I handled a Bavarian the other day and although it is beautiful and fits me like a dream my eyes have been opened to the fact that it would be a horrendous choice to base a long range project on. Now, if I ever decide that I want to plop down a couple grand on a strictly open sight rifle I may go back to it. But Nathan's books have helped me, even as a consumer, to gain better ability to cut through marketing hype and understand what I need to look for and why. One more thought - I could not more heartily endorse the articles and information available on this website. I wish my state would make the material on Game Killing Fundamentals mandatory reading in our hunter education courses. Thanks again and well done, Nathan. |
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@ 02:09 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Heck Josh, thank you. |
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@ 01:43 am (GMT) |
Gavin ChauRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!bit of a thread revival but having read this (second) book once as soon as it came out, I was very impressed but maybe didnt have enough knowledge to get the most out of it other than simply following the instructions - I recently re-read it (and the first book) as a friend of mine is looking to buy a new LR rifleI know Nathan isnt really into theoretical stuff (and probably say its bullshit!!) but I started to run a lot of the accuracy load data through quickload and compare it against the optimal barrel time method for finding nodes. a technique that I found works well -at least for the 4 rifles I've tried it in. The most impressive thing was that nearly all the load data (velocity nodes) that I came across comes damn close or is spot on with the OBT predictions! All I can say is that it must have taken a hell of a lot of load development/ field testing experience to arrive there for so many different calibres!! all I can say is that I have a new appreciation for the mountain of actual field work that has been distilled into a concise LR manual!! |
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@ 05:34 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Thanks Gavin. That says a lot for quick load also.In the past I have been very hesitant about guys using software rather than using their eyes and hands on experience. However quick load has so many inputs that it is proving to be a better starting point than the reloading manuals. It may still be something for more dedicated enthusiasts as opposed to those new to and overwhelmed by the practice of reloading, but either way, the feedback I have been getting from folk like yourself proves that this software has great merit. Thanks again Gavin- yes, it was pretty hard yards. The entire site and book series has been hard yards. |
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@ 09:29 pm (GMT) |
Gavin ChauRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Quote: Thanks Gavin. That says a lot for quick load also.
Hi Nathan, absolutely (but I have only tested it using ADI powders) and to find accuracy nodes you have to combine it another tool based on a theory. I actually bought it only after I found my loads - out of curiosity. I agree its probably unnecessary but I found it to be interesting exercise. models will never be able to replace hands on testing though... still need to get off the computer and actually shoot! anyway - thanks for making your experience available to us mere mortals on another note I'm looking forward to the book on shooting technique!! is that likely to be in book 4 or 5 and will it cover the use of tripods? ps. have you thought about running multi-day LR hunting courses/ tutorials in a class format (theory and shooting) for NZers? |
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@ 12:36 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Book 4 is reloading, book 5 technique. Though I sometimes wonder if I should have started with book 5. Yes, I will cover tripods. |
@ 12:38 am (GMT) |
Mal BirrellRe: Nathans new book, your thoughts!Can`t wait for book 4....I bought books 1 and 3, didn`t worry about book 2, thinking i wouldn`t get much out of it as i don`t really shoot long range.A bloke i was talking to the other day said book 2 is great and lent me his copy.....what can i say,but i`ll be buying my own copy asap....great source of info(as usual) I highly recommend all 3 books for anyone interested in rifles...... Mal. |
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