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> Precision long range hunting and shooting
> No Ammunition Available
No Ammunition Available
@ 03:23 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoIs it just me or has it become extremely difficult to find ammunition and re-loading components? I've been looking for ELD-M bullets in 7 mm for weeks and can't find them. I've also seen issues with certain powders. Is this another question of people binge buying or is something else going on? I haven't really seen it discussed elsewhere. |
Replies
@ 07:55 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: No Ammunition AvailableHi, Lane. The US manufactures are operating 24/7 at maximum capacity. The shortage is caused by hoarders of loaded ammunition. No sign of it letting up. |
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@ 10:44 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: No Ammunition AvailableHoarders ruined it during Obama's administration and I guess they'll ruin it for the next four years too. When shooting is your hobby it's very frustrating. |
@ 11:08 am (GMT) |
Ed SybertRe: No Ammunition AvailableIt's not all hoarders. Nearly 5 million new gun owners joined the ranks in the USA during 2020. Most also bought and are buying ammunition. -Ed |
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@ 11:22 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: No Ammunition AvailableEd, maybe. I say the more the merrier in terms of new gun owners. However, it's hard for me to believe that new gun owners are buying up all the 300 Win. Mag.; 280 Remington; and 22-250 ammo. It's also hard to believe they are buying up all the 7 mm reloading components.I could see it if it was 45 ACP; 9 mm; 308; and 223. But it isn't. It's everything. That's what makes me sort of think it's hoarders. The other explanation that due to supply and demand ammo manufacturers are concentrating on the more popular ammo and then it's selling out quickly. This would leave no time or resources for making the less popular ammo and components. Either way, I need some 7 mm 162 grain ELD-M's and can't get them. |
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@ 05:02 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: No Ammunition AvailableI just read an interview with Federal’s CEO. It’s all cartridges, he said. They have a year’s worth of backlogged orders over $1B. They’re updating the Remington ammo factory they bought in the bankruptcy. That will help, he said, but he wouldn’t make a prediction on when it will be over. My range upped its membership fee 29% this year. I told them I wouldn’t mind paying it if I had ammo to practice with. They said they’d prorate it if I obtain any. Last year my “sighting-in” before deer season consisted of one fouling shot at at a paper plate stapled to a tree at camp. I feel your pain, Lane. |
@ 12:11 pm (GMT) |
Jake CareyRe: No Ammunition AvailableQuote: Ed, maybe. I say the more the merrier in terms of new gun owners. However, it's hard for me to believe that new gun owners are buying up all the 300 Win. Mag.; 280 Remington; and 22-250 ammo. It's also hard to believe they are buying up all the 7 mm reloading components.
I could see it if it was 45 ACP; 9 mm; 308; and 223. But it isn't. It's everything. That's what makes me sort of think it's hoarders. The other explanation that due to supply and demand ammo manufacturers are concentrating on the more popular ammo and then it's selling out quickly. This would leave no time or resources for making the less popular ammo and components. Either way, I need some 7 mm 162 grain ELD-M's and can't get them. I've been trying to make the exact same argument to folks. They want to blame everyone but their own kind. Frightened homeowners buying their first gun are not genetically stupid. They are buying one box. They'd buy just ten bullets if they could because they know that real life doesn't look like Call of Duty. There are thousands and thousands of sycophantic tactical bros caught in a feedback loop, psyching each other up and trying to outdo one another at what their youtube channel gurus say they ought to do to get ready for the "shtf" revolution they fantasize about. If only they "train" enough and wear the right gear and groom their beards correctly they will eventually frighten or overpower their countrymen when they disagree with their votes and opinions. There are thousands of other more lucid hoarders who simply have the income to buy whatever they can whenever they can, hastening the self-fulfilling prophecies of shortage or cutoff of supply. Many of these folks simply enjoy the feeling of wealth that comes from denying others what they have. Many are just sincerely concerned. There are definitely many new reloaders this year as a result of people needing new hobbies and I think that gutted the stocks of bullets and dies. I'm inconvenienced by that but I can't be mad about more handloaders, that's good for all of us in the long run. This is on top of an industry that deals in very small margins and high tolerances that can't afford to create more supply capacity than regular times call for, an industry which also depends immensely on global supply chains and overseas shipping which has been thrown into bedlam by the last year's events. Can't put gownpowder on the shelves when it's a thousand containers deep in a boat 50th in line at the port of Los Angeles. And when it does get off the boat it's probably only the stuff bound for handguns, 223, and 308. It should get better soon but that depends on how many people like the desperation and willfully continue it. So many folk just enjoy their fantasy lives too much to accept rational market forces and continue to espouse theories and paranoia, continuing the problem. That said I'm building a rifle around the 180 ELD-M simply because it's still available for some reason. I've seen 160 class 7mm interlocks and interbonds too. I know none of those are good substitutes for the mighty 162 ELDM. Wish I could help. Oddly, for some reason the WSMs and 280AI are on the shelf almost everywhere I look, along with 26 Nosler. I assume all the 26 nosler owners have more trouble keeping barrels than ammo, but the others surprise me. |
@ 04:41 pm (GMT) |
Jim BeckRe: No Ammunition AvailableSame same here just North of Seattle. Have a couple K of primers so figured try some new powders in my old 270.....drove by one store - line of about 6 guys out the door so kept going. Asked the owner of the next place how the powder situation was and "shitty" was the reply. Even the less popular stuff was gone let alone the older go-to powders....looking at burning some 3f black I bought by mistake in my 45/70 Marlin to give me an excuse to go to the range. Lots of empty on the bullet shelves as well....back to bows and spearguns if this keeps up. Best to all. JB |
@ 01:59 pm (GMT) |
AprioriRe: No Ammunition AvailableTalk about laugh at the YouTube experts !I made the mistake of watching a couple of the "ten minute" series discussing cartridges - two or three young fellas in headsets simply repeating the marketing puffery from the side of the cartridge box as though it was gospel. And then they were talking about their hunting exploits with their "precision manbuns". It sounded totally made up to me. Made me want to throw my laptop against the wall. I realised that these guys simply do not actually READ books about shooting. They watch just videos, play Call of Duty, shoot PRC matches . . . repeat BS without investigating for themselves and pretend they are genuine experts on the internet . . . The number of times they claimed some variety of 6.5 mm manbun cartridge was just sooooper "efficient" compared to the "old" cartridge it was replacing. Some new cartridge offered the same performance of a standard action cartridge but in a much more modern short action. I heard fingernails down chalkboards every time. Who cares about cartridge "efficiency"? The 6.5 Creedmoor became "The Creed", and 28 Nosler (etc) became "28 Nozz". WSM cartridges are "wizzums" unless you're from Texas. So hip they were hep. Made me feel old at first, and then it made me feel sad for these guys, and grateful to have found Nathan's work. These young men believe the marketing and genuinely do not know what they are missing. I now understand some of the things I've heard Nathan say a bit better. |
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@ 02:51 pm (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: No Ammunition Available"Wizzum". I like that. It's tough for me to watch Nathan having to repeat the same stuff over and over. Guys still want to argue about things that really are not up for debate if you know much at all. It's frustrating for sure.One thing that has caught my attention is the repetitive nature of "efficient" cartridges. As an engineer with many mathematical accolades, engineering physics and such, I have a highly scientific question that bears asking: Who cares? When did cartridge efficiency ever matter about anything. I seriously don't understand it. I don't think my 270 is efficient but I've never had a deer or antelope complain about it's use. Mostly they just fall over and die without pain. OK but I am from Texas so if I can't call it a Wizzum I'm going to call it the 300 Sporty Shorty. |
@ 08:09 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: No Ammunition AvailableJust wanted to write a quick post to say thank you to Apriori. Steph and I both got a chuckle out of your post but along with this, we are very grateful for your kind words. Thank you, it means a lot to us, especially when under a heavy work load, attempting to create something meaningful. |
@ 04:28 am (GMT) |
Michael SeagerRe: No Ammunition AvailableCertainly here in the UK anything with Hornady or Nosler on the side of the box is just "unobtainium" as it doesn't get out of the US.Time to investigate bullets from Lapua and Norma more I think... |
@ 12:33 pm (GMT) |
Christopher HowseRe: No Ammunition AvailableI've read a lot of stuff on another forum. Many American shooters are discussing the shortage.My concern is that the knock on effect is Australia will deplete stocks and then we will have a dry patch. We do produce powder and some ammo but a lot of gear is from the US including primers, projectiles and specialised cases. I'm not seeing it yet but I think there is a drought coming. |
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@ 01:26 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: No Ammunition AvailableHi Christopher. I can tell you that this time last year in the US, even before the George Floyd murder, the shelves were bare. I know because the weather was getting nice and it was time to hit the range. If you need components from the US, count on a year at least. |
@ 08:22 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: No Ammunition AvailableI really think the whole data crunching phenomenon around gun and cartridge performance is just part of a larger phenomenon. With the advent of instant information at ones fingertips, people seem to think that if they just read enough forum posts or watch enough youtube videos, they'll arrive at the knowledge of what is "the best" whatever. It's not at all limited to guns. On the one hand, I applaud the curiosity involved and the effort to consume information for one's own edification and education. I can totally identify with the desire to do so (hence why I'm here on this site). On the other hand, I know that it's a rabbit hole that never finds any real resolution.It's not a new aspect of human nature, it's just that we're now inundated with information. In the "olden days", people largely went by the experiences of those they knew to inform their decisions and opinions. "My grandpa always shot a 270 and it always worked great for him." "Well MY grandpa says a 30-06 is the way to go, so that's what I shoot." (Both grandpas were right.) Now, there is a sense there there is such a thing as a "best" (I see questions to that effect constantly on my Facebook outdoor/shooting groups, as well as classic Mercedes groups I belong to, to a lesser extent). And if there's a "best", it must be demonstrable by data, hence people poring over ballistics tables and whatnot. Heck, even someone like Nathan has this curiosity, though he's gone the much more difficult (but more worthwhile) route of actually DOING it rather than trying to experience it vicariously through forum posts, drop tables, and youtube videos. Sorry for the philosophizing! I just like to think about abstractions and big picture type things! |
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@ 08:25 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: No Ammunition AvailableThe foregoing was in response to apriori's comments.AS per the original post, I find that just going to various websites and asking for an email notification when a product is back in stock is helpful. Maybe you're already doing this. I don't shoot anything 7mm (yet) so I don't know if that's particularly hard to get. I do know that I can't seem to find any 257 cal ELD-X, so it's not hard to imagine you're having particular difficulty. |
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@ 09:31 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: No Ammunition AvailableI would probably have achieved a lot more video clicks and book sales if I focused on what was best ("Top 5" type vids etc) But instead, a portion of my focus is toward teaching shooters that they themselves (their efforts) are what counts. A lot of people do not want to hear this. They want what is easiest, to find a website where people agree with them and for others (or apps) to do their thinking for them. Information is meaningless without action. |
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@ 10:33 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: No Ammunition AvailableHa, true. And I find that people want to be told what to think. |
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@ 12:55 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: No Ammunition Available"Information is meaningless without action." So true. I find that I sometimes fall into the self-deception that merely reading about something informative is in itself productive. But I have to set a limit at which I stand up and start doing. |
@ 01:32 pm (GMT) |
Mike PatrickRe: No Ammunition AvailableAbout 7 months ago, I heard that a store in the area I was in, which was the Seattle area had 12 gauge buckshot in stock. So I drove there and and saw a guy with a shopping cart get to the aisle before me. there was probly 50 boxes there.He started loading them all into the cart. I saw what was about to happen so I stepped up next to him and grabbed 5 for myself. He was instantly angry. "wait your turn" he said. I said if I wait, I won't get a turn. I was disgusted with this guy. I was not planning on buying 5 boxes. I was gonna get 2. Out where I live which is about 4 hours east of Seattle its far more rural. There is a North 40 store that has a lot in stock BUT.... they limit each person to 2 boxes per type per customer. The hoarders are out there for sure. I feel like its gun control perpetrated by gun owners. |
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