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> Precision long range hunting and shooting
> Viewer discretion advised
Viewer discretion advised
@ 05:13 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifThis video contains graphic details that may disturbing to some viewers:https://youtu.be/OTEl2p2gVLo |
Replies
@ 08:49 am (GMT) |
Steph FosterRe: Viewer discretion advisedThank you so much for that Scott, I can not tell you how glad I am that you are putting yet another nail in the hunting coffin. How wonderful of you to put a video that highlights every poor attitude / low skill set demonstrated by hunterstoday in order to justify why hunting should be banned. I have some issues with the creator of the video. Why is he wearing a brand new Leupold promo cap? If no hunter should be shooting beyond basic ranges why the fuck do we need scopes? Obviously his ethics don't extend to not taking money from a company that creates products that embrace long range hunting. I am going to explain something to you very clearly Scott, in case you haven't realized already - I am irate Scott, I am off the wall fucked off with you. Nathan began as a hunting guide many years ago and the whole reason he ended up going down the "long range" path was because he had to. You have no idea how many hunters are unable to take game at short ranges let alone long ranges. Nathan had to get very good at long range in order to clean up the mess of clients who couldn't shoot at short ranges. Those idiots shooting in that video would struggle to anchor game at any range. Their shooting skills were beyond bad - they were abysmal! the creator of the video is obviously so lacking in any shooting ability himself that he is completely unable to discern what the real problems the shooters in this video are demonstrating. It has nothing to do with the range of an animal. Nathan and I are desperately trying to teach hunters real skills to encourage true ethical hunting. Real shooting skills embrace all ranges when common sense is employed. This mentality of "I can't do / don't like" something therefore no one can or should be allowed to do it, is disgusting. What was the point of putting this rubbish on our forums Scott? Why don't you tell everyone to stop buying our books while you are at it. I know that you have the best of intentions, but this kind of crap does nothing to empower anyone. |
@ 01:15 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Viewer discretion advisedWell said that Lady...well said indeed.If what you intend to say or show does nothing for the good of hunting and helping folks out...well shut the f#%& up and say nothing at all. the modern trend to post on facebook etc every little part of your day is pure crap...get a life.... posting up videos of poor hunting practice is not only poor form is downright dumb....I know first hand of people being hauled through courts due to ill thought out videoing including one actually on a video recorder that went in for repairs as tape was jammed..repairer saw what was on it and handed it to SPCA.... a quick clean kill should be the goal of all...everytime. |
@ 04:14 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Viewer discretion advisedYeah.......wow! |
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@ 05:33 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Viewer discretion advisedrightho......so that is 23minutes of my life I will never get back...but in interests of fairness to the OP.....I watched it right through.YES I can 100% see why you are pissed Steph...... BUT I could also,go into Nathans wonderful books and cherry pick sentences that echo the same sentiments...just worded differently.....this DD chap might well be the worlds biggest tool...but he is saying the same thing both Nathan and yourself Steph have said many times...the animal comes first. shooting beyond your abilities is dumb,inhumaine and if you use his term unethical......where the difference/conflict comes in is defining what is the line where your abilities arent good enough...MANY times in your books this is addressed..... if your rifle wont shoot less than inch...yeah nah no shooting past 300 yards...... and you better be better than half inch if going to stretch it much past that.... that is common ground.... the 800yard barrier is mentioned too... so you fellas do have sensible limits and arent afraid to say so...you have my deepest respect for that. its also written,if first shot goes wrong you better be ready to get on and finish the job.... so there is common ground...this DD fella is unfortunately a tool and is pushing his own barrow for whatever reason its hard to fathom. agree 1000% posting videos of animals being wounded is dumb for reasons outlined above.....the guide needs arse booted into next county for #1 allowing shot to be taken #2 for not backing up client #3 for allowing multiple attempts when it was plain to see nothing clean was likely out come. hopefully this long winded reply is taken in the manner it was written,I thought about this for hours today..... keep up the great work. |
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@ 08:57 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Viewer discretion advisedHi Steph. Thanks for your spirited response! I’m truly sorry I offended you. I agree that posting “rubbish” doesn’t empower anyone, and I apologize for doing it. It surprised me when you said Nathan went down the long range path to clean up after clients who wounded animals at short ranges. |
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@ 09:39 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Viewer discretion advisedHi Scott, I wrote about this at the beginning of my book - The Practical Guide To Long Range Shooting. I also provided a photo, showing one of these clean up kills, showing both the client shot and my final kill shot at long range. |
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@ 10:46 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Viewer discretion advisedPages 23-25. I stand corrected. |
@ 01:11 pm (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Viewer discretion advisedI hate this for all the reasons above and one more. I'm red faced with embarrassment that these guys from what we can tell are Americans.Hunters from other countries have no context for who we are other than what they see online most of the time. Australians and Kiwis don't just fly over here and hunt with us anymore than we go over there most of the time. We don't need to propagate the notion that Americans are like this. I don't know of a single guide that would have allowed this guy to hunt after seeing him shoot. I've hunted with guys from all over the southwest from Colorado to Houston and I've never seen anyone do something like this. I do want to assure our hunting brethren from other countries that Americans to a hugely large degree are not like the guys in this video. There are a lot of us and we may be a little noisy but we're not like this. |
@ 07:34 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Viewer discretion advisedHi Everyone,I saw this post go up last week and watched the video and the subsequent responses with interest, this is a topic that I felt needed some serious reflection on before responding. Hunting ethics is a complicated business at the best of times, and whether you agree with DDO, partially agree or completely disagree, this is a conversation as hunters we should never be afraid to have, conversation is much better than throwing hand grenades over the fence. Steph and Nathan, I understand where you are coming from, this is an example of everything you are trying to educate against and to see it posted on our forum together with some “ethical rules for hunting” from some fella who may or may not have a clue which way is up no doubt sucked the kumara. Lane, it would be easy to say yeah, it’s an American thing, we don’t behave like dickheads but to quote Nathan that would be total “bullshit”. If anything Kiwi’s are worse because most of us don’t use guides so it’s all self regulated. If you look at the direction marketing is going with “new toys” and combine that with a human tendency to laziness it is probably safe to assume that the sort of behaviour demonstrated in the video is probably increasing rather than decreasing, despite the incredibly depressing fact that they found this footage “normal” enough to post on line. There is a subset of any group that are likely to be ill-informed idiots, sadly hunters are no exception. The first step to fixing anything is to acknowledge the problem in the first place so I am going to respectfully disagree with you Steph and say thank you to Scott for posting this, you made me think about where I stood. Cheers Vince |
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@ 06:24 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Viewer discretion advisedSteph could have deleted my post. Instead, she told me what she thought of it, and left it up here for all to see. I highly respect her for that.I should have said in the original post that Desert Dog’s opinions are not my opinions. Anybody who has hunted pronghorns in eastern Wyoming knows it’s not always possible to stalk within MPBR. Nor is it unethical to shoot at a distance you have practiced, with a suitable cartridge and bullet. I meant no offense to Steph and Nathan. The only reason I posted the video was for the shit-show hunting footage contained within it. I have a sick sense of humor. To me, it was comedy at its finest . . . particularly the final scene extolling the guide’s abilities! Not to mention the dialog . . . “Make sure you’ve got one in the chamber, safety’s off, steady as you pull,” “Send it,” “This shit’s off,” etc. Steph perceptively pointed out that the abysmal technique displayed by the hunters makes the range at which they were shooting irrelevant. In the YouTube comments on the video, Desert Dog says the footage was taken in California, and the range was 700 yards. He also says all CA hunters are required to take a hunter education class. Can it get any worse than that? Yes. They were using all-copper bullets. Do they teach terminal ballistics in the course? Probably not. My guess is they parrot the manufacturers’ claims about weight retention, penetration, mushrooms, etc. |
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@ 06:35 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Viewer discretion advisedMaybe we should all go shoot a bit and get back to that. Enough of this. |
@ 04:05 pm (GMT) |
Brandon MaxwellRe: Viewer discretion advisedWow. You are completely blind and make way too many assumptions and puke word salad and obviously you are your own fact checker.... Hahaha.Your implication is then that "fair chase" hunting is ethical. Why? 1. So you are implying that every fair chase hunter makes clean killing shots. One shot one kill in your rainbows and unicorns fantasy land. 2. You imply that outside of the point blank range is long range and not ethical because you now introduce new variables that can be ignored sub 500 yards. So in response to number one and two obviously any and every hunter is ethical or unethical by how much study, effort, and mostly practice and fine tuning they do to understand their rifle and their round used in conjunction with their specific gear in their specific environment. So yes if you do not have the knowledge and the equipment, like you obviously don't, and don't reload and practice for long range, then yes it would be unethical for you to take that shot. Some moron with factory loaded rounds running through the trees taking unsupported standing shots, like I saw you do in the video, are definitely going to wound and lose several animals. Likewise a turd brain that doesn't put in the work is unethical at extended and extreme range. People like myself have the ability to measure my seating depth and size of primer to the thousandth introducing a tuned primer seating depth for reliable and consistent ignition. Then using a scientific scale, load within a hundredth of a grain. Use primers like ccibr2 for their consistent and low spread in primer force. I use ladder test for charge weight to first and foremost find my usually lower accuracy node with the tightest SD and shockingly low ES. Then after truly fireforming my brass after 3 to 4 firings controlling shoulder bump to 1 thousandth with a full length resize all from sorted and neck turned brass. Using a expander mandrel set to fine tune neck tensions. I also perform bullet seating tests to find the furthest forward seat minus one thousandth so that throat erosion will be slower to effect my round. I use the highest quality optics and rangefinders and physically measure my zero distance and perform a tall target test. All of this under the watchful eyes of both a labradar and a magneto speed. I practice in many positions and record my data. I also use the latest calculators. So to call me unethical for dropping my cow elk at 1165 yards with a 285 ELDM in a 338 Lapua with an IOR Crusader 5.8 to 40 with a vetronix rangefinder capable out to 6800 yards a slope angle device and a kestrel applied ballistics weather meter and Strelok Pro with thousands of rounds of practice and a second barrel is asinine. Now handing you my gun and asking you to take that shot is obviously as asinine as your video. Flying in an airplane is also obviously unethical even though we have the technology and knowledge, because we should clearly use horses and wagons. Ill tell you what. My 7mm practical is turning out sweet. Once you know the math and your system becomes an extension of you then you will know when and when not to take a shot at any distance. If you really cared about fair chase and were not a hypocrite you would be an archery only guy with a handmade bow and flint tips. Which I love by the way. The ultimate challenge. In the end all you did was demonstrate your ignorance and tried to force your uninformed opinion out in the universe as fact. I do think you have the right to say what you said and feel the way you feel, just don't tread on me. I am sick and tired of all of the people who feel they are good, moral, and just and then try to impose their will over others. It is not the what, but the who that matters. I can build a house. I can fix a vehicle. I can build a gun. I can shoot long distance. I can do regression analysis and build my own computers. I run a business and have a successful marriage. The fact that you cannot do what I can do has no bearing on me or the likes of Steph and Nathan. Nathan's whole platform is dedicated to being ethical in the pursuit of long range hunting, because so many people think that you can simply use any cartridge with any bullet. But to do so may lead to an unethical shot if you have chosen a system that is not up to the task and the range you engage and with the resistance of the target you are engaging. Sorry about the length, but your video was longer. |
@ 01:38 pm (GMT) |
Florida_CrackdrRe: Viewer discretion advisedBrandon - I'm surprised someone else hasn't jumped in but this is pretty much a dead post. The original poster (Scott) did not make or post that YouTube - he simply posted the link. Please read the entire thread from top to bottom and you will see what I mean. Your comments would be better served by signing onto the YouTube channel linked by the OP and posting there. The OP did not make or publish this video.Florida_Cracker |
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