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Knife
@ 01:00 am (GMT) |
Michael NeesonJust looking for some advice on getting a knife. Is a gut hook recommended, what about size and steel grade? Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
Replies
@ 06:01 pm (GMT) |
Stephen LindsayRe: KnifeI have really enjoyed this knife discussion as I have always "just gotten by" with whatever knife was handy at the time. I have learned a lot and now I crave something truly good and useful. Based on Aj's comments, I have looked at Knives of Alaska and now I realize there is even more to learn besides steel and craftsmanship. What is the significance of full-tang? And what specific uses do the various blade styles excel at: drop-point, clip-point, and straight-spined?Thanks for any further illumination. sl |
@ 06:55 pm (GMT) |
Warrick EdmondsRe: KnifeStephenA full tang means the full thickness of the steel is carried through the entire handle. However some makers taper the thickness toward the butt, for cosmetic reasons. It makes for a stronger knife but a heavier one than the more common alternative, which is where only 10cm or so of steel enters the handle. Good quality knife steel is much more expensive than 'steel', so some manufactures cut corners, esp if using something like damascus which can retail at $50USD per inch. There is another alternative, where a rod of cheaper steel is welded to the rear of the blade and carried completely through the handle. This is then tied off by being screwed into a metal pommel at the butt. This can be a good, strong style. The drop point was popularised by Bob Loveless during the 1950's to 70's. It allows the blade tip to be slid along under the skin while resting on the knife's spine, with little fear of penetrating the guts or meat. The clip point is a throwback to the times when a man carried one big bowie that did everything, including fighting. It puts a sharp point onto an otherwise upswept curve. Good for general use, including cutting cord and the oponent's throat. Not so flash for hunting knives because the tip will always dig into the guts etc. Its now mainly included for decoration and remember double edges are illegal is some parts. Straight spined? never heard of that one. Michael A gut hook, you either love them or think they just add dead weight. I'm in the latter catagory. But I have clients who shoot African big game and they have specially shaped knives specifically for the one opening cut unzipping the tough dirt encrusted hide, then they revert to skinners for the rest of the time. If you're commonly unzipping mud encrusted game you might consider one, if not, then its not really required. I also address some of these questions on my website, see Riflebirdknives and the page called 'Tips on Buying a Custom Knife', where I talk about steels and handle materials. cheers Warrick Edmonds |
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@ 10:23 pm (GMT) |
Stephen LindsayRe: KnifeThanks Warrick, I just spent a very enjoyable couple of hours going through your site, continuing to learn. It is no wonder you are full-up on commissions with such careful and beautiful work.sl |
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@ 11:40 pm (GMT) |
Warrick EdmondsRe: KnifeStephenThanks for your comments. If you're wanting to explore more in the way of custom knives you could look around The Australian Blade Forum, which now has thousands of members, including some of Australia's best makers such as Peter Del Rasso and Shaun Macintyre. I have to admit, these guys leave me sitting on my arse in the shade. The ABF encourages new chums and has a friendly and open atmosphere. (You can lurk for as long as you want without joining). Warrick |
@ 11:16 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: KnifeJust a quick few things.My blade is 6" and I would have preferred 6.75 or 7". I think 7.5" would be just a bit too much for me. Sorry to correct you Warrick. If memory serves, you selected a piece of stock suitable for a non paid job etc (i.e- it was already this length). As it is, I am immensely happy with the knife. I find the clip point of the bowie to be more than decorative. With a drop point, it tends to lose strength at the tip and I have had drop points that did not retain a sharp point without great attention to this area. A bowie with a good clip tends to retain its point for several days work in the bush (or weeks) because of the blunt bevel on the top edge. The bevel allows the steel to be relatively thick at the point. So there is a lot to this. As a side note, many of the frontier knives of NZ were very large bowies. I think my father's Sheffield Bowie is about 7" or so. Finally (totally irrelevant sorry), I just noticed Riley was watching Steve Irwin, was the pilot for the Crocodile Hunter (youtube). I never noticed till now that he used to carry a Mick Dundee style knife. Blade must have been about 8" long easy. Classic. |
@ 11:39 pm (GMT) |
Steve MarconRe: KnifeHi Guys,There seems to be a great deal of good solid advice on this topic but just to add some input from my experiences I thought I'd share this with you. I was fortunate enough to have been given a great Knife and Belt Axe set by an uncle for my 40th Birthday a few years back. They were made by a local (Australian) knife maker by the name of J. R. Peck. The knife is a Damascus blade 6" in length with a drop point and I love it - beautiful to work with, well balanced and very positive in the hand. Being Damascus I was originally a bit cautious when using it (maybe it just seemed too pretty at the time) but quickly came to realise that it was built for its intended use and I can honestly say it has stood up to the test and delivered all I've asked of it, camp, field or kitchen; holds a great edge. The interesting addition to the set was the Axe (D2 steel) and this has proved itself to be a great companion whether out in the scrub or at the camp site, I've even used it to skin with when a hunting companion lost his knife down a crevasse trying to retrieve a deer and we were forced to share utilities. It has a gut hook on the back and a nice curve to the blade - holds a good edge too. Admittedly I didn't think much of it at first in terms of its practicality but it straps onto the side of my pack, it's 10" long and weighs 650g including the sheath, you can break down a carcass in no time flat. I never leave home without now. I'm sure Belt Axes are not for everyone but it may be something to consider if you see a use for it. I would have attached pics but the camera batteries are flat so if any one wants to see them let me know and I'll post them later on. Cheers Steve. |
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@ 02:56 am (GMT) |
Steve MarconRe: KnifeG'day all,Got the camera working - Pics attached (I hope) 
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@ 03:27 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: KnifeLooks great Steve. I had been entertaining the thought of a tomahawk, but looks like an excellent balance between heft and portability. Thanks for posting it. |
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@ 01:24 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: KnifeSorry to drag up an old post but I thought I would let you guys know what I ended up getting. I ended up buying an Anza Dunefield. Rougly 6" blade, made from a retired file. I finally got to use it last week on my annual hunt. It's funny, but I didn't use it the previous year as it looked too big. The knife balances at the finger groove, holds a great edge and is very easy to use. Opened up the ribs with ease, I could even hack through the H bone on fallow, opening up the pelvis for a good cleanup. It's certainly not a custom knife and the grind is not quite matched on both sides, but I really enjoyed using it and am very happy with it.
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@ 11:55 pm (GMT) |
Warrick EdmondsRe: KnifeI've been contacted by a party interested in Nathan's knives, so here's a couple of pics, just to recap. Both are made from 52100 carbon steel. I was intending to do the second from CPMS35VN stainless but changed my mind at the last mo' after trialing that steel on my own skinner.The first knife https://www.dropbox.com/s/mjj3wdl5hvkol03/Warrick%20Edmonds%20Riflebirdknives%20hunter.JPG?dl=0 The second knife owes a lot to Mr Bowie! https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dgjk5pw5qd5iyd/Resize%20of%20002.JPG?dl=0 |
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@ 03:04 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: KnifeYou're making my knife look like a pigs ear Warrick... |
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@ 04:11 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: KnifeI have been meaning to email you Warrick but this thread will do fine.Wanted to say, I have been finding that the knives / this steel seems to be getting better with age. And by this I don't mean finding the right angle because I have not changed anything. In the DRT vid I put up, it had been three trips since I sharpened the knife. During that time, I have butchered deer, muddy goats and pigs and sheep. Have only used a sheffield steel to correct the big knife over a total of about fifteen animals. If you watch through the vid, I had a slow cut on the grey goat so I changed my approach angle to make the knife work easier (I cut the front leg from the front). So the knife was just starting to dull off a bit then. The blade had no oil or fat on it as the storm hit and we got fairly soaked. I finally cleaned the knife two days later and there was surface rust so I took to it with scotchbrite, leaving fine black stains where the rust was. Others might be keen to see it pick up a black patina over time but I cherish this one a great deal including the polish you gave it, so I have been trying to keep it that way. In any case, it will need a proper sharpening now. All in all, a good steel to work with. I think it takes time to build confidence in any tool so perhaps this is also factor. In any case, I have been very happy with the results. |
@ 05:12 am (GMT) |
chris mooneyRe: KnifeMy two cents worth. 2 stab with a kukri you need to have the sharp side of the blade facing upwards. The mercator folder was standard issue to german infantry in WW1, and there is still no better bean can opener. |
@ 06:46 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: KnifeAlvaro, we have those mora knives here sold as Bacho in the Bunnings chain as they carry a whole range of their tools,you can also find them in places like Goldpine or CRT and prices range from $5-$20 and they are great wee knives,I skinned and boned out 2 deer and a pig using my first one and touched it with steel twice. bought a 2nd one that lives in my utewhat I really like about them other than the wicked sharpness and price is the hard plastic sheath...it holds knife in and wont let it cut its way out (got a good scar across my shin from leather sheath knife cutting its way through my pack and my leg) that put me off sheath knives for years and Ive carried folders ever since....in my pocket and bum bag...nice and handy to get out Nathan......lol and you can still get Mercators with decent steel. |
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@ 11:53 pm (GMT) |
Warrick EdmondsRe: KnifeNathanWell, that's all good to hear. I still haven't found a better steel for holding an edge in hard use conditions. The cost of that, is as you said, maintenance. I've since learned a trick (last night in fact) that I might incorporate into carbon knife sheaths if I can figure out a practical way of doing so. In days gone by, they used to line the leather sheaths with felt that had been soaked in a rust retardant of some kind. So every time you drew the knife/sword it came with a condom. Without trying this myself as yet, I doubt just putting oil / WD40 or similar directly into the leather would work because it might make it slippery, so the knife would simply fall out, whereas felt is renowned for gripping even when wet. It's something I might experiment with and get back to you. Just a reminder to Nathan's readers. I still stop by the site regularly, so if you have any knife questions (that don't revolve around brands) please ask and I'll do my best to answer them. |
@ 06:00 am (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: KnifeThis is a skinning knife reshaped and is really good for field dressing . It's an Ozzie made works knife I inherited in my travels. [b]
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@ 09:44 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: KnifeHi Warwicklooks the same as my "F Dick" knives. A good knife that butchers etc use http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?productLine=1072 Bob |
@ 12:28 pm (GMT) |
Mike RRe: KnifeI have an " f dick" boning knife that I've had for 20 years good knife, used it tonight to trim up some venison. Usually I use it to take leg meat off kangaroos for the slow cooker. It's sheath is a bit of rubber heater hose lol.My belt knife which when I'm after pigs is always on my hip, is a sturdy USMC ka-bar which has got me out of a few problems ; ) only paid 70 bucks for it so can't complain |
@ 01:16 pm (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: KnifeWarwick, your skinning knife reminded me of one a friend made for me years ago from planner blade steel from a sawmill he worked at. Held a great edge too, very similar in shape and the blade was 5.5 inches long. Was a beast to sharpen but held its edge for a long time with a bit of help from a leather strop and somethimes a steel.Lost track of it when our family moved to the Northwest Territories while I was in university in southern BC. |
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@ 11:23 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: KnifeIt's the shape of the blade that has impressed me with this knife. It stabs well as the points in line with the handle. The tip easily gets into vertebrae and leg joints to cut sinews when breaking down the carcass. It removes muscles easily when boning out legs and back steaks. It skins well as the curved section at the fore blade area is enough to match your wrist roll as you work the pelt off the carcass. The middle blade area slices and cuts through muscle well. The heel of the blade will cut through the centre rib cartilage with a tight fisted grip on the handle and a firm shove! The handle is food grade plastic with a sharkskin texture and the grip is positive even when covered in blood and fat. The dishwasher won't destroy it when someone uninformed puts it in for a wash. It holds an edge without fuss chops kindling rope and other things that won't ruin it. It's not nice to fillet fish with. A knife this shape with a longer thicker blade would be excellent if you were living in the bush long term. For a freebee that I found blunt and unloved in a dusty box of junk its repaying me well.
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@ 06:40 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: KnifeWarrick,its interesting you mention dishwasher.......some knife makers say using one is a no no....... I find after some of my EX works knives have been through one they are a mongrel to resharpen????? change of temper with the boiling water maybe???? sure gets the plastic handles looking great though...and it brings dirty old steel back to life too. |
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@ 08:30 am (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: KnifeLol Mike its probably the caustic soda and finishing chemicals in the dishwasher powders to make glass and stainless Shiny and streak free that makes it difficult. A big flat fine well wetted wet stone bites into the blade and then finish with the diamond grit steel and its good to go again. Warm water and Janola ammonia gets a knife spotlessly Clean and sterile. |
@ 10:36 pm (GMT) |
Dan KeeneRe: KnifeThis is a great thread guys. I have learned a lot. Thank you. I have learned that my hunting knife could be made of better steel as it is plain old 440A. It sharpens up OK but could hold that edge longer. So, Warrick can you please advise me over which steel? I have been looking at 1096 Cro-Van (Kabar) or 440HC. I would value your opinion, thank you. Cheers,Dan. |
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@ 11:40 pm (GMT) |
Warrick EdmondsRe: KnifeDan Keene440A, is the most chrome rich of the 440 stainless group and therefore has the most rust resistance but comes with the cost of being somewhat softer than most high end stainless steels. It was one of the original cutlery steels and has remained in favour because of it's relatively cheap materials cost to bulk manufactures. Of this group 440C is the better bet, holding a reasonable edge when HT well. I've never heard of 440HC so can't help you there. Is it a proprietary steel? 1096 is a simple mid carbon steel. With the addition of chromium and vanadium it becomes more wear resistant and can possibly take a higher hardness and even some sort of stainless rust resistance (though I would be careful of the later) 1096 itself is known to rust, so 1096 cro van would be better. What I'm getting is that your choice is between a stainless and a carbon steel. Of these two the carbon appears to be the better for edge holding and wear resistance however it will rust if you let it. Another consideration is how hard has the blade been made. This is measured in RC. Where 54 is on the soft side, 58-60 is just right for most people and 62 up to 66 is hard to very hard. Hard = edge holding but comes with brittleness. Soft means you have to sharpen or strop more often but the knife will be less prone to crack or split at the edge. The 1096 could very well get harder than the 440 stainless. Remember the risk of rust though. Just for the record, my choice for stainless is RWL34 (in the kitchen) or CPMS35VN (for hunting) and for carbon it's 52100. They're not cheap by any means, but they are the bees knees for me at the moment. Mike Davis Teampering is usually done at around 200 to 300 degrees C, so 60 degree dishwasher water isn't going to affect it much. I guess the dullness usually comes from the mechanical jiggling a dishwasher provides. The other reason custom makers don't like dishwashers it that 60 degrees is well hot enough to wreck the hard earned finish they've put on a timber handle, strip off the lacqures and even weaken glues in time. Hard plastic handles and their like are ok of course, esp if riveted. |
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@ 12:17 am (GMT) |
Dan KeeneRe: KnifeThank you Warrick. I will see what proprietary knives I can find in those steels. 440HC is what Buck knives say their steel is on their website. I can get Buck or Kabar at a really good price that is why I was looking at those manufacturers. Cheers,Dan. |
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