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> Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations Wanted
Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations Wanted
@ 09:58 am (GMT) |
David LenziI had an especially frustrating day at the range. I developed a load for my .30-06 that I thought I had dialed in...only to find that, today, I had an extreme spread of something like 90 fps and a SD of about 38 fps. I also had two primers (of 10) that didn't go bang.I had planned to test a new load today, grabbed the wrong box...sort of a blessing in disguise. I can just shoot the rest of the box I have as range fodder now, zero confidence in the loaded ammo. The only thing I can figure is that my scale is (or has always been) inaccurate. The velocity variation leads me to believe it's easily +/- .5 grains...and that's just not anywhere near acceptable. Thus my inquiry: am I about to spend $500 bucks on a new fangled digital scale or can the group here point me to something of quality based on your experience at a more reasonably price point. |
Replies
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@ 10:08 am (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedIf anyone is curious, the load is:Lapua brass, CCI Large Rifle primer, 57 gn of Superformance, 3.35 COL. Initially, I tested COL in .02 increments between 3.34 and 3.40 and saw no real preference, though perhaps a slight edge to 3.34. The initial test batch was right about 2670 fps with an SD of ~10 (quite good for me). Today was +/- 50 fps from that. I am aware that's .3 gn over book. I'm almost afraid to test my other load again. That one is 52.7 gn of H4350, otherwise the same, and runs around 2600 fps. The only other powder I've tried so far is H4831sc...and that, oddly, pressured out WAY below book max (charge weight AND velocity). |
@ 08:29 pm (GMT) |
Michael HendersonRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedHi David,As far as a new scale I’d probably invest in a set of check weights first. Then if you determine your setup ain’t up to snuff get some digital ones. The new ones aren’t all that bad price wise, and can be more accurate than beam scales. With digital scales you should let them warm up before use and be mindful of air drafts, even your breath will throw it off. Some have an aggravating auto off feature to save battery life, but all it does for me is make me lose my Sunday school lessons. Shop around on the internet (Amazon has few). I’ve been using a Lyman and it’s been spot on. On a side note, I believe superformance is a ball powder. I’ve not had any dealings with it, but most if not all the ball powders I’ve tried had bad temperature stability. Was the last range day much warmer than the first? If so that might be something to look at. As far as powder throwers go, I’ve always thrown the charge a little light then tricked in the last bit. So I don’t really have a preference on the weight part, but my Lyman is WAY easier to clean up than my RCBS. Hope some of my ramblings help |
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@ 06:24 am (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedGrazie, I appreciate the input.My little digital scale did come with a check weight. The problem is, I think, that she drifts...and I don't know how often I would need to "zero" it or whether doing so every charge would even prevent it from drifting. Superformance certainly appears to be a ball powder. As regards temperature stability, my expectation would be that the mean velocity would change, but the ES and SD would not be negatively impacted if the charge weights were consistent. I made another frustrating effort this morning, with the right bullets at least. Different charge weights provided some unsurprisingly hard to interpret results. The only real constant was that the 195 TMK velocity was too low to offer anything in terms of long range performance over the 208 ELD-M assuming they're both close to their advertised BC. An aside - the SF factory ammo I've tested has consistently been some of the best for ES/SD. I'll take a look around and figure out what I want for a upgrade. |
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@ 08:11 am (GMT) |
Michael HendersonRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedI’ll throw some ramblings at you, and hope maybe you’ll find something useful in the mess.The last ball powder I tried was CFE 223. It did wonders in the beginning and I thought it was “the stuff”. Worked up a load for my friend to use in his 308 win for 1000 yd F class and all was great.... then the wheels fell off. First few matches he was able to keep them in the black, no problem. The last match he used it they were all over the place. So we went to the range to run them over the chronograph. The SD went from something like 5 when we first worked up the load to up in high double digits. Now the only two factors that changed were (1) a new pound of powder and (2) the temperature. (The new can of powder was the same lot # and the load was no where near book max) If either change was the culprit the easiest fix was to go back to Varget and all was good and right again. He was able to keep em in the black once more. I see you had some primer issues as well, that could be the cause. Bad primers may not give you consistent burn leading to SD issues. Next ramblings is the original question you asked. The “Gempro 250” would be a good one. Goes for about $175.00 US. But I still recommend getting some check weights. They come in a set of different increments so you can insure you’re not being lied to. Hope I helped with my ramblings |
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@ 11:08 am (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedWell...that's slightly horrifying!I haven't done any work up with RL 23 because it's damn hard to get at the moment and I'm trying to reserve it for my 7mm RM. I'm not sure I gave my Enduron a fair shake after the 4831sc issues. I suppose I could just run the H4350 and be happy at ~2600 fps. The 4831sc does at least have a nice velocity node at 2900 fps w/ Matrix 168 VLD in my T3x, so there's that as a companion. The point on check weights is well taken. Having just the one isn't a help, certainly. |
@ 05:15 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedThen of course, there is the Lee beam balance. I found it to be highly accurate, very reliable in terms of repeatability, but at times, frustrating. Years ago, I bought a set of scale standards weights off a vendor in China on ebay. Using these as a constant, I put the POS RCBS scale up against the Lee. Hands down, the Lee took the ribbon. There are a plethora of horror stories regarding the Lee. My biggest beef is that every once in a while, maybe once every 50 or 60 rounds, the bearings hang up for some reason. Probably the way I re-hang the pan, who knows? If you are into reloading more than 20 or 30 rounds at a time, it can be remarkably tedious, but I always figured it to be more of a therapy session than a job. After all, if you are going to use a tool that is designed to be repeatedly accurate, why would you rush through the process?I also have a set of electronic scales. They were supposed to be the "best of the best". Right. Influenced heavily by environmental conditions, they could or would not hold zero, repeatability sucked hard, and they kept shutting off. Bad, bad, bad marketing and production practices. Plus, they had an accuracy range of +/- .5 grain. That meant that the difference between charge number one and charge number ten could be a full grain. Not on my bench. Now they sit on the shelf, battery still intact, hoping that it self-destructs from that nasty green powder that eats the contacts away. I'd throw it away, but it was too expensive. My recommendation is the Lee. You will probably never find a better scale. You do have to glue a toothpick to it, though. |
@ 03:20 am (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedA couple of weeks ago I charged 100 rounds using the Lee scale. When I finished I realized that the scale had warped my sense of time and I was disappointed to find that it's still 2020. But Paul is right. The cheap son of a gun is accurate. |
@ 06:04 pm (GMT) |
Douglas WoodRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedI have several scales both mechanical and electronic.Old reliable is an old Ohaus 10-10 (RCBS). Works great and repeatable. I have a cheapo $25 electronic which I swear is near as repeatable, but it does tend to wander. Best one is the RCBS micro lite. I hooked it up to a surge protector and leave it on for days when reloading. As long as I leave it on for an hour or more prior to reloading I get no noticeable wander. I calibrate before the start of reloading and then run the check weights. Again, if you keep it on and warmed up, no wander. I have checked loads against both other scales and it stay right with them. Like was said though you practically have to hold your mouth just right! Another thing I do is have the micro lite on a slab of marble counter top. Nice and heavy and stable. My bench is also overbuilt to make sure I have no vibration. Occasionally I will have it throw .1gr over, maybe 1 in 25-30 rounds. Dump it back in and let her rip again. The electronic scales are extremely finicky and as mentioned you have to be careful with drafts and vibration. I suspect although haven't observed it that they may be temperature sensitive. I am fortunate my reloading is done in the basement at a fairly constant 65-67degrees. |
@ 08:14 pm (GMT) |
Hamish GibbsRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedNot sounding alot like you have read the literature available for purchase on this site David? Save yourself some money/time and frustration and start there. Like as others have said the lee is at least a great primary or check scale, depending on your resources you could upgrade to the recommendation in the reloading book as I have done, a joy to use and not a top dollar item. Have been tempted to upgrade to automatic setups but from feedback it wouldn't really be an upgrade if accuracy is your primary goal. Personally I have not had much luck with digital setups and consistency. |
@ 05:21 pm (GMT) |
Jon ShortRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedI use a basic Lee Powder Measure (by volume) to dump just under the powder weight required into the pan for the Lee scale, then place it on the scale beam & use a powder trickler to top the load up until the Lee scale is on the money... The trickler speeds things up alot.I often use a small cheap electronic scale to check the weight load & pick up if I make an obvious mistake especially for my long range rig. Mistakes rarely happen I have found with the Lee Scale but they can happen... ie from my experience you have to be careful with the Lee scale that you have the bean sitting central on its blade, with the vertical blade spaced evenly between the magnets each side, & not off to one side from one measure to the next which can easily happen if you bump the beam hard across to one side if you get me. Cheers |
@ 03:33 pm (GMT) |
Todd FreeRe: Powder Scale / Dispenser Recommendations WantedI have an RCBS 505 beam that is my trusted scale.Had a Hornady beam as well, but it was not very accurate and would not hold zero for very long. I have a small Lyman digital scale that is almost useless. Almost. You cannot trickle powder into it to get an accurate load. You can use it is a check though, as long as you pour the powder all in one go. Dispense with RCBS, then pour onto lyman scale and it is always the same as RCBS. If you trickle onto the Lyman and check with RCBS it can be out up to a 1gr or more and it is always heavier. |
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