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> 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?
338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?
@ 05:09 am (GMT) |
James KnightAnyone used this bullet on game yet in the 338 Federal or 338/08? It looks like a good option, looking for an elk bullet that will hand together in the timber but open up out around 350yds. Anyone? |
Replies
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@ 07:05 am (GMT) |
James KnightRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Which bullet/load in the 338 Federal is most likely to shoot through (holding tight into the shoulders) an elk at 250yds or is that asking too much from this cartridge? Is this cartridge realistic for breaking shoulder bones at all? |
@ 01:15 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?James read this. .....http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.338+Federal.html?__utma=1.1852704852.1494121864.1502766756.1503450651.250&__utmb=1.1.10.1503450651&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1503450651.250.5.utmcsr=ballisticstudies.com|utmccn=(referral)|utmcmd=referral|utmcct=/Resources/Discussion%20Forums.html&__utmv=-&__utmk=113700871 Do yourself a huge favour and buy all of Nathans books ..... You'll find many answers skills and solutions as long as you read and follow the advice and knowledge contained. .... |
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@ 05:24 am (GMT) |
James KnightRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?I like Mr Foster's writings, but the 338 Federal specific Woodleighs were not out when his testing was done. I was wondering if any "down unders" or "up here'ers" (ha) had tried the 200 yet. I'm not likely to ever take a shot much past 200-250 in reality, I just figure if they'll work out to 350 or so, I could have more confidence in my choice. As is, I'm fine using the Speer 200 in the woods, or my regular hunting area. I will shoot a water jug test from up close and out at 350 with my 160TTSX load soon as I can. It may be the "cats meow" for me. thanks guys. |
@ 09:22 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Haven't used these James though being Woodleighs l wouldn't hesitate on mid to heavy game! Might be a nice reduced load pill for my mates win mag.We run the PP's in 270, 06's, 300wsm, 338wm & the RN's in my 9.3mmx62 for Sambar which are elk sized deer and have had excellent results though nobody has pushed out to the ranges you have quoted. It's not an "Aussie thing" either, they really have performed well in that role on all sized animals. |
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@ 07:14 am (GMT) |
James KnightRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Well, after doing some research and discussing it with my gunsmith, I'm having this little Ruger 77 All Weather rechambered/converted to the 338 RCM ( Ruger Compact Magnum) This rifle already has a brake on it ( had it put on after a fresh wrist surgery in 2007 for that season) so may as well use it! ha. I feel with more velocity available I can not only extend my range but my "power"....I like to shoot all the way through big hogs/elk sized animals from even hard angles. Now I can push bullets designed for the 338 WM to decent velocities. I don't see myself using anything over 225gr in it, more than likely a 180-200 Premium of some sort. |
@ 08:32 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Heck, completely missed this thread till now sorry.OK, what you need to understand is that below 2400fps, heavily core bonded bullets begin to retain energy, regardless of mushrooming. Below 2200fps, the wound channel is directly proportionate to the expanded caliber. Therefore, if you are shooting such a bullet and cannot keep your shots well forwards into the autonomic plexus (forwards shoulder also offers extra resistance to aid expansion), big deer may run a long way after the shot. Rifle accuracy (field) and wind drift error are major concerns. The .338 Federal can at times be caught between a rock and a hard place. A tough bullet will produce excellent penetration but can be very much lacking as far as wounding goes once it falls below 2200fps. Generally speaking, it pays to let go of the idea (focus) of deep penetration when using this cartridge, even if the gun was purchased for this very reason. Look towards wide wounding and use low velocity combined with heavy bullet weight as a means to enhance penetration, especially if you intend to shoot out past 300 yards. This brings us back to the old slow moving Winchester Silvertips from days gone by. The SST is very similar in this regard. The 225gr SST has plenty of weight behind it and at 300 yards is still traveling at around 1900fps and works very well at this impact velocity on large body weights (also the Speer BTSP). As Warwick said, you would do well to read the book series as I covered this in detail with more info in the second edition. In the very middle we have the 210gr Partition. The Hotcor is much the same and although it has core bonding, it is not nearly as tough as the Woodleigh and behaves more like the Partition. Starting in the middle, the hunter can monitor results and study wounding thoroughly. After some time in the field (terrain, ranges, angles) the hunter will know whether he needs a softer bullet or something tougher like the Woodleigh. This is a classic case of a cartridge that needs to be treated in the same manner as long range cartridges, but in this case it applies to close ranges. This and other mild offerings are the very reason why we need to continue to have access to more traditional bullet designs rather than being forced by any do-gooders into using 100% weight retaining copper bullets. There are many cartridges like this one and hunters need a range of bullet options to ensure they can achieve clean and humane kills on a wide range of game body weights- not simply one bullet that only works when X and Y are perfectly aligned. Having said this, the 160gr Barnes bullet has some merit in this cartridge but its performance is again reliant on high velocity (the very reason why it was created in this bullet weight and a tell tale sign of the limitations of this type of bullet design). And I suppose one could also argue- why go to the trouble of obtaining a .338 just to use regular .308 weight bullets in it. Then again, there are many aspects of ballistics which take us around in circles. Sometimes if you really want to explore and fully understand ballistics, you have to bite the bullet and go in the direction you would normally be least likely to take. The factors I have talked about in this post will appear counter intuitive to many hunters. If I had read this post many years ago, I would have scoffed at it and taken the toughest bullet I could find because I did not understand other factors, not fully taking your muzzle velocities or bullet metallurgy parameters into account. I hope that helps a bit James. |
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@ 04:03 am (GMT) |
James KnightRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Thanks sir. I figure the 338 RCM is as good as a 338/06, and may end up being more comparable to the 338/06 Ackley Improved. I am not trying to make it a 338WM but if it gets close, that makes me happier, ha. I appreciate the write up you did on the 338 Federal, putting it in the "class" of the .243, for example. More Specialized than "all Around" is what I'm saying. I could have been fine with it and the 160TTSx, I'm sure, but I like how the Mediums (caliber and bullet weights) hit bigger/tougher than deer game! Thanks a lot. Jim |
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@ 07:41 am (GMT) |
James KnightRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Hedged my bet...found a really nice MKII in 338WM for a good price. I have a wad of 200gr bullets, just thinking about a 250gr or heavier that would work well up close and out at 350-400yds? |
@ 11:33 am (GMT) |
Paul YatesRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?I know this is an old thread, but I just can't help myself from posting because it seems to me the 338 Federal is being under-rated.Probably for good reason, because it seems the info is based on fairly old data, such as "Upper average velocities for the .338 Federal in a 22” barreled sporter include 2850fps with 160 grain bullets, 2650fps with 180 grain bullets, 2450fps with 200 grain bullets, 2400fps with 210 grain bullets, 2350fps with 225 grain bullets and 2250fps with 250 grain bullets." (from Nathan's page on the 338 Fed) Newer powders and load data allow us to drive 200 grain .338 bullets over 2700 FPS from a 338 Federal, and 160 grain monometals at close to 3100 FPS This puts it basically on par with published 338-06 loads. With this data in mind, I respectfully suggest that people who are considering the 338 Federal should (through their own investigation) come to realize that Nathan's assessment of the 338 Federal was, at one point, very good - but that it is in dire need of an update. No offense intended, Nathan. There are A LOT of cartridges out there and you cannot be expected to keep up with all of them all the time - especially ones that seem to get so little attention as the Fed. |
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@ 11:39 am (GMT) |
Paul YatesRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?Regarding the original question.There's an Aussie in this thread who uses the 200 Woodleigh as his go-to projectile in 338 Fed for everything from fallow deer to sambar with consistently great results. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3634927/19 Some excellent load data and discussion in that thread as well. One of the best cartridge-specific discussions on the net, IMO. |
@ 02:16 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?I have used the 180gr 30 call Woodleigh PowerPoint. It had a cannelure at Winchester's request (a factory load) but good the results were devastating. All close range. 100 yds or less. I'd use them again in a heart beat as a dual load. |
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@ 04:56 am (GMT) |
Paul YatesRe: 338 Federal specific 200 Woodleigh?I've been working with the 338 Fed a bit more and I am happy to report that Alliant Power Pro Varmint can safely push a 200gr CnC projectile (such as the Woodleigh Weldcore PP, Hornady FTX, Hornady SP) at 2750-2770 fps from my 24" Savage 10 LRH. I used current Speer load data for the 338 Fed and I did not need to exceed their max listed load to achieve these results.With these velocities, the 200gr Woodleigh will be devastating on elk out to 250 yards, and the more traditional (softer) CnC projectiles will remain effective out to 350-400 yards. This powder is worth playing with if you are loading for the Fed. Puts it basically on par with the 338-06 and brings it within 100fps of the RCM. |
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