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> Medium and large game hunting
> Hornady recommendation for elk
Hornady recommendation for elk
@ 11:12 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifIn this video, at 33:15, Hornady recommends against shooting elk in the shoulder with an ELD-X because the bullet might come apart. That’s why they invented the CX bullet, they say.https://youtu.be/h9zxCWyd4_E |
Replies
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@ 09:43 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Hornady recommendation for elkHere’s another Hornady video. At 34:00 they say their cup and core bullets are designed for behind the shoulder shots, whereas the CX is designed for hitting bone and ensuring pass throughs.https://youtu.be/7DdNXtfWeWw |
@ 12:11 pm (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Hornady recommendation for elkIs there a point you're trying to make? |
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@ 01:43 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Hornady recommendation for elkNo, but the Hornady guys are making a point. In the second video, all 4 of them are using 190 grain CX bullets on their Elk hunts this year . . . which seems odd since they prefer the behind the behind the shoulder, meat saver shot. |
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@ 01:53 pm (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Hornady recommendation for elkSo why are you posting it? |
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@ 02:51 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Hornady recommendation for elkIt’s a new product of general interest to large game hunters. When they first announced it, I thought they just stuck a tip on the GMX to compete with the Barnes TTSX. But that’s not the case. It’s a new design patterned after the ELD geometry. It retains velocity long enough to require a heat-shield tip. (The SST is tipped, but not with a heat-shield tip, because it doesn’t retain velocity long enough to require it.) The 190 grain .308 CX has a BC equivalent to ELD bullets of similar weight.They say in the video that if you’re worried you might hit the shoulder while aiming behind the shoulder, you should use it, and that even rib bones can be tough to penetrate. |
@ 10:32 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Hornady recommendation for elkThere is some terrific information in these videos Hornady is posting, just consider who is posting them and why.....It wasn't long ago the Eld-X was touted as the projectile for all situations. They have to offer a lead free option to be legal in many states and/or countries. If ribs are to tuff for a 30 cal projectile YOU are doing something you shouldn't be. Scott watch there video with the Ryan Cleckner. He openly states that the eld-m is his preferred projectile for hunting game large or small, dumping all its energy in the vitals cavity. Watch the faces of the Hornady guys when he says it! |
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@ 10:43 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Hornady recommendation for elkOne other point.Why do you want high retained BC's and 95% weight retention in a hunting situation. The BC's aid in extended range shots and this projectile has no place for that purpose, period. And yes l have shot animals with 30 cal mono bullets at range and these companies should be called out for even suggesting it! |
@ 12:25 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Hornady recommendation for elkI checked and the SST bullets have a higher BC than the CX, Example the 7mm 139gr SST is .486 and the CX is .429. How can a projectile pushed at the same speed retain more velocity than its weight twin but with a lesser BC?The 7mm 139gr GMX bullet has a BC of 0.486, just like the SST, can that be true? I also find it hard to believe. The 150gr GMX had a BC of 0.464, more realistic, and below the 139gr SST. When the CX came out, on another forum we discussed the differnece between it and the GMX. The CX was supposed to be better, but at the time the Hornady website showed a higher BC for the GMX bullets than the CX, so how were they better? Since then they have removed the GMX information from their website. But you can still look it up when looking for the bullets on different online retailers. I find this worrysome, they might be misleading customers just to push a new product. I don't see how the ELD-X cannot penetrate a rib from an animal, but I haven't used them. I have witnessed the 162gr SST put down several elk shot through the shoulder with the 7RSAUM and 280 Rem. We have taken deer with the 162gr A-Max out of our 7mm-08's, through the shoulder and behind the shoulder. They penetrated just fine, so how can an ELD-X, that is supposed to be tougher than a match bullet like the A-Max fail to penetrate bone, like a rib? Apologies from all the rambling, but some of their information makes no sense. Kind regards Luis |
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@ 01:00 pm (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: Hornady recommendation for elkLuis, I knew when I read the original post something wasn't right so I took the time to listen to the video. That's not what they said. The guy even says later that the ELD-X is his preferred bullet. They were referencing taking elk with a 6.5. That's a whole different thing than taking an elk with a 7 mm, 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag. So yeah, using an ELD-X in an undersized cartridge might not work well, but what does? |
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@ 03:30 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Hornady recommendation for elkHornady bought the Doppler radar device after the GMX had already been in production. They didn’t use it to update the published BCs of their older products. They mention this in a comment to one of the podcasts, where a listener asked the same question as you.They used the radar to develop the ELD line. That’s when they discovered the polymer tips were melting. There’s a whitepaper on their website on why they had to develop their heat shield tip to remedy the problem. In it, they say the SST would not benefit from a heat shield tip, because it doesn’t retain velocity long enough to melt the old-formula polymer tip. In one of the podcasts they say that when they were developing the CX, they determined that it was going to retain velocity long enough to need a heat shield tip. |
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@ 04:35 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Hornady recommendation for elkThank for sharing that Scott, I did not know that. Might be why I have to adjust the BC a little for the A-Max and SST bullets that we use on our 7mm-08 and 7mm Rem Mag. In order for the CX to retain velocity to need a heat shield Tip that would mean they are being fired in a larger magnum cartridge, like a 300 RUM or something in the likes of that. Looking at their BC's I don't see them going very far in a 30-06 or 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag or a 300 WM.Both the 162gr SST and 154gr SST will retain more speed than a 150gr CX out of a 7mm Rem Mag. I don't see how a 162gr SST wouldn't benefit from the heat shield tip, although I get it they don't need to when they have the 162gr ELD-X. I just don't see truth to their statement of the CX needing a heat shield tip. Lane I agree with you, 6.5 for elk is too small for me, and too light of a bullet as well. In the 7mm I would not use anything under 160grs for larger game. I'm not knocking on Hornady bullets, I actually like them, especially the SST and the A-Max, been using them for years and they have worked great. The Interlock BTSP has also worked great on deer. |
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@ 04:52 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Hornady recommendation for elkAt the end of the second video all 4 of the Hornady guys said the CX .308 190 grain is their first choice for elk. The marketing guy is the one who said it’s a good choice if you’re worried about hitting the shoulder bone when you’re aiming behind the shoulder. He also made the stupid comment about how big the rib bones are. He followed the comment up with another about quartering shots, and how you need penetration. But he’s the marketing guy, so you can expect him to say all kinds of shit, wacky or not. He also mentions the CX is good for those who want a pass through.I’m convinced the best choice is an ELD, but not for a deliberate shoulder shot. The reason I say that is, none of the other guys defended the ELD’s ability to survive a direct hit to the shoulder. They’re all elk hunters. None of them mentioned that a heavier ELD would do the job. I’m not saying it won’t. As Lane points out, in the first video they talked about the 6.5 PRC. But in the second video they was talking about .308 bullets in 300 PRC and 300 WM. To be fair, they said the CX won’t work below 2000 fps. |
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@ 05:13 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Hornady recommendation for elkLuis, there’s a Hornady YouTube video just on the Doppler radar. At the end they talk about how they used radar data to populate their 4DOF ballistics program. The A-Tips are in there, as well as the ELDs, CXs, and match hollow points. They have also used the radar on competitors’ match bullets and put them in the program. But the other Hornady bullets are not in there. |
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@ 12:51 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Hornady recommendation for elkThanks Scott. I know about them using Doppler Radar.I'll stay with my SST's and A-Max for now. I am working up a load for my wife's 7mm-08 with the 150gr ELD-X, we'll see how that goes. Thanks again for sharing all that information |
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