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> Opinions on shell to use in M14
Opinions on shell to use in M14
@ 07:57 pm (GMT) |
Brad WarrenI am having trouble deciding on a round to hunt whitetail. The complication is the I am using my new M14 scout that has an 18" barrel. I am leaning toward the lighter rounds in order keep the velocity up in the shorter barrel but how light? I am thinking nothing heavier than 150gr or lighter than 135. Ranges are not further than 100 yards and body masses will average 150 pounds. |
Replies
@ 03:04 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14Hi Brad, I have never been a great fan of dropping bullet weights down in the .308. On the one hand we gain velocity but on the other, we can lose a bit of punch. Internal wounding with the lighter bullets is generally excellent on suitable weight deer, but in some instances, animals run because there is simply not a great level of trauma messaging to the brain unless the CNS is struck directly. The light weight .308 pills also lose velocity relatively quickly.Another way to look at this, is to simply use a softer bullet than you normally would but without dropping bullet weight. Combine this with careful load development using a fast burning powder (something in H4895 range or just slightly faster) and you should be able to keep within 70fps of typical .308 velocities. Please consider the Hornady SST bullets 15-166 grains and also the Speer 150 or 165 grain BTSP (very soft) bullets. The 168 and 178gr A-Max would also be useful if you can get your hands on any. If you can, please experiment with this concept for a season and see how you go. |
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@ 08:36 am (GMT) |
Brad WarrenRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14I contacted Springfield armory and inquired as to the maximum grain weight this rifle should operate with. They gave me a very firm 165 grain limit so I would like to stay at 155 grains in a factory load but wont there be a significant loss of velocity with an eighteen inch barrel? From what I have read on the matter 2600fps would seem to be the optimal velocity for that weight and animal and I find it difficult to believe that an eighteen inch barrel on a semiautomatic rifle could develop that velocity at that weight. Feel free to correct me if I am in error this is the first semi automatic rifle and the first 7.62x51 chambered rifle i have ever owned so i do not have extensive experience with either. |
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@ 04:01 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14My original goal was to try and get you to think about bullet styles rather than velocities in this particular rifle. By changing bullet styles, you can have the exploisive power of a 130 grain varmint type bullet but with more bullet weight and a higher SD for for uniform results across varying game weights. It would not bother me if the muzzle velocity were 2400 like a .303 Brit or 2500fps- if the right bullet is used, something can can create wide wounding in the absence of high velocity.Please have a look for the following factory ammo and trial it on game: 168gr Zombie Max 168 Grain A-Max Superformance. Please see video at the bottom of the .308 article in the KB. The A-Max (Zombie Max is the same bullet) in this video strikes at 1400fps. Its the equivalent of a 600 to 700 yard shot from your M14. |
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@ 03:21 pm (GMT) |
Brad WarrenRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14Nathan,Thank you for all your advice but I still have the concern that 168 grain bullets will damage my rifle. The primary concern is bending the op rod and it has become even more of a concern since all I can find of your recommendation is the 168 gr super performance ammo locally. Can you tell me if the super performance ammo is known to damage m1a rifles ? I have been attempting to get a straight answer from Springfield or hornady but can't. Get a respond out of either. |
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@ 03:53 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14Factories can only load within SAAMI pressures however the SF ammo certainly has a longer peak pressure curve which will increase stress to the gas system to a degree.The zombie max load would certainly produce less energy within the gas system. Also, keep in mind that a 168gr bullet will have less powder behind it than a 150gr bullet. I think the answer for you may be an adjustable gas tube. In NZ we have been a bit lucky because our SLR had a very simple gas adjusting unit fitted to all rifles. Have a look at this: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/699378/schuster-m1a-adjustable-gas-plug-steel-parkerized |
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@ 02:03 am (GMT) |
Brad WarrenRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14I managed to track down a box of 168 gr sst superperformance. I also put in A call to Springfield armory to inquire directly about the super rounds and their performance and hazards and was told that there weren't any known problems with that round I believe this is what I will use since I cannot find a or z.max loads. Does this sound suitable for my application ? |
@ 03:36 pm (GMT) |
Randal GrahamRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14Brad, I'll chime in briefly since I have had some time with both m14 and garand rifles and reloading for them. And Nathan also touched on the issue already.The problem that Springfield is alluding too revovles around reliable cycling with the gas sytem, the heavier bullet is not really the issue, rather how the action will operate under differing pressure curves. This is compounded with the shorter barrel. There is an extremely simple fix though, and adjustable gas "block" or regulator... Do a search and you'll find a number of options. For heavier bullets you'll need to adjust the regulator or gas block to balance the timing of the unlocking with the recoil impulse to get proper operation. The garand style action really can't take much slamming in the rear before damage occurs. I have helped sort this out with a number of friend's M-1's... Result being able to shoot anything from 130grain all the way up to 200 without any problems. M14 action is the same animal for this discussion. Do make a point to load single rounds initially when adjusting the gas block though. |
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@ 03:42 pm (GMT) |
Randal GrahamRe: Opinions on shell to use in M14My crappy eyes...did not see the link Nathan posted...that is exactly the cure for the M-1 and M14 action.Most folks who shoot competition with these rifles use these blocks for these same reasons. Man I miss the FAL/SLR's... |
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